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Heating lines in hot water.

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ACW
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#11

Post by ACW » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Just a blast from my past .
silk lines get very stiff when temperatures drop below zeroC.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#12

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:47 am

Thanks Kevin, I remember this product but never tried it. Wasn’t this a Richard Walker innovation?

You’re showing your age now Andy :)

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Kevin P
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#13

Post by Kevin P » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 am

Yes, RW apparently commissioned a chemist to formulate it: to quote him " discovered that the cracking of PVC coatings on modern fly lines was due to loss of plasticiser, brought about by a variety of factors including heat, the use of ordinary greases or simple time in storage....devised a special grease to restore lost plasticiser".
The stuff still works, though discontinued. I am convinced it prolongs line life considerably when cracking is due to plasticizer loss and everyday handling. It could well be counter-productive to over-soften a line that is going to crack because of high-friction hauling.
The association of grease with cracking seems convincing - intermediate PVC lines (which don't get greased or oiled) seem far more resistant to cracking.
If I find the Gehrke version does the same job I will post the result.
I refurbished some older lines because the shops are mostly out of stock. I could have saved my time because we can't fish - unless the water is at the bottom of the garden (thanks to Berndt Ziesche for pointing it out so tactfully).
Kevin

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Paul Arden
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#14

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:02 pm

It would be interesting to find out what it was/is. My lines last much longer when I silicone oil them regularly. But if I use something like car polish they die rather quickly. I currently get around a year out of my floating lines but I suppose this is mainly because I can go all day for only a few shots!

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#15

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:06 pm

I have never soaked a flyline in 303 protectant, but I have liberally coated a few lines with the stuff (imagine how candles are made) with very good results.

I will do an experiment with a piece of an old line and see what happens when left to soak overnight... but I have a feeling it might be too much of a good thing.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

Kevin P
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#16

Post by Kevin P » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:30 pm

I did a bit more reading around. Here are a few answers to questions raised. Sorry about the long post.
-Q1 Why did older flylines (and some cheaper ones today) crack so quickly? A1. The flexibility, suppleness when cold, low-memory, and stretchiness of PVC are indivisible. These properties are given to PVC by plasticisers, which make up a large proportion of the plastic in a fly line. Older PVC lines, and some mid price lines today, require greasing to float well, but the solid greases such as Mucilin dissolve the plasticisers out of the line, which then gets stiff and cracks. The greases were/are made of a hard wax with a solvent to soften it, and the solvent dissolved away the plasticiser. SA warned about 20 years ago that these greases would wreck lines - but most of us didn't understand that; and we need lines that float on, rather than in, the water - so we keep on greasing.
-Q2 What's Permaplas?. A2 It is an oily paste laden with diffusible PVC plasticisers. It makes stiff wiry lines soft again, adjusts suppleness to cold water, and prolongs the life of the line. It still works today on deteriorating lines. It was discontinued several years ago and (unlike Permafloat) Arnold Neave never published the formula.
-Q3 Why do old / cheap lines need greasing? A3 Some are denser than modern up-market lines, and all were more wettable (less hydrophobic) than the latest flagship lines. The up-market modern lines contain not only plasticisers but also water-repellent oils that gradually seep out so that grease should not be needed nowadays. and the oils also make the line more "shootable". Some new, mid-range lines seem not to have this slippery quality, and still don't float too well. These oily products help a bit. but the lines still tend to sink. So we still grease the front tapers.
- Q4 What do the oils such as Line Slick or Shoot do? A4 - They coat the line making it more slippery and water-repellent. Since the amount of oil contained in the new line must be finite, topping up with fresh oils must be a good idea and most of us do this routinely.
- Q5 What do automotive vinyl products do? A5 - the vinyl treatments claim to seal the PVC surface and reduce cracking so they are potentially useful. Note, some people are saying on the Internet they are using windshield polishing products to treat their lines. These products are designed to dissolve away PVC plasticisers deposited on the glass and seem very risky to use on lines.
Q5 - why am I still looking for a re-plasticiser? A5 - I have various legacy floating lines that suit my rods and I want to keep them going. I will try Gehrke's PZ treatment on them. Permaplas still is the only way I know of making a PVC line soft enough lie straight in water at about 3degC.
Q6 - Is all this information still useful to anglers? A6 - Maybe not. SA state they no longer use the old-school leachable plasticisers, and say this gives "2-4 times longer life". Up-market lines also seem to have a harder outer "skin" that probably improves the durability. As stated above, the hydrophobic oils keep the new lines on the water's surface without grease. I have made a New Year's resolution to give up line grease. I felt I should give up something I enjoyed, and it was easier to give up grease than beer.
Kevin

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Paul Arden
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Re: Heating lines in hot water.

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:41 am

Thanks Kevin :)
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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