How do fish get away?

[Bendix]

Just a quick edit.

I had remembered wrong! The hook I use is not a size 3/0, but actually a size 5/0.

And I think the design of the hook shape helps a lot in achieving the effect I’m trying to describe.

The curve is similar to the shape of many Carp hooks, and I don’t think the desired effect will be very good if you use a traditional streamer type hook, with a long straight shaft.

I have included a picture of the hook. I think it could be strong enough for Snakehead, and a big plus is, that the relatively small barb can easily be crushed with pliers. I always do this when I’m Pike fishing.

/Bendix

[Paul Arden]

That’s an interesting hook shape! I actually have a bunch of hooks since one of my guests left a flytying kit with me that’s bigger than mine

So I’m using 40lb knot-able wire that’s pretty thick since about 1 in 10 bite through 30lbs (absolutely no idea how). I do have some other wires to test. I tried knot-to-kinky but it doesn’t knot and it breaks easy. So that leaves crimping and twisting. And then testing these for a direct pull of course.

However I can see that I might need to rewire for a change in setup. And am prepared to do this. I’m also looking at braid instead of the 40lb mono I use for the snags. Getting the braid to float will be another issue but the usual problem is getting it to sink

So I suspect it will be a completely new leader. I was trying this during lockdown in April. But then got sidetracked when the police found me and kicked me off the lake

So basically we are looking at a knot that allows the hook to slide. Which has the benefit of making the hook replaceable off a loop knot! Which also makes it easy to test different hooks.

I’ll tie some flies and leaders after the weekend. Thanks!!

Cheers, Paul

[Will]

I've been trying something similar on salmon tube flies. Comments I'd make:

I can't be sure but I think Bendix's wire rig photo has the wire coming through the eye the wrong way? Pretty sure you want the wire to exit the inside of the eye? Try it both ways and see which turns the hook best. Carp anglers also use "kickers" or "line aligners" which are short sections of shrink-tube bent slightly to make the hook turn in the fishes mouth. Worth looking at.

My feeling with salmon tubes was that you do need some separation between tube and hook, or in your case popper and hook. If they're too close together the weight of the tube flips the hook over and away from your finger when you do the test Bendix suggests.

If you're using wire you could try rigging the popper intruder-style (as per steelhead flies), making sure when you loop on the hook the wire exits the inside of the hook eye. (Note a straight eye or slight down-eye will turn the hook best in this case). I'm slightly sceptical though as I think the wire/fly link may be too stiff to allow the hook to turn properly. Interesting experiment though.

Have fun!

[Bendix]

@Will

You actually might be right about the weight of the popper, could cause the hook to turn upside down.

Mind you, the Pike tube flies I have used this rig on, are extremely light, as they a mainly made out of flash, and they are quite sparsely tied, even though they are quite big, bulky and long (This is sort of hard to describe). In fact they are so light, that you need an intermediate fly line and a short leader, in order to pull them under the surface. On floating lines, the flies will stay in the surface the whole time, as you strip the fly...

But a big foam popper, will naturally have more weight and mass, even though they float. So you might be right about the fact, that this rig may not work as intended on a large popper...

About the deal with line-aligner in Carp rigs, you are quite right about the fact that they hook very effectively. Or at least, that is what I’ve read in books, and been told by many other Carp anglers.
“Fortunately” I didn’t fish Carp that many years, before I began focusing on fly fishing. So I never got around to trying the line-aligner rigs myself. But the theory behind them is supposedly sound, and well documented.

/Bendix

[Graeme H]

I've made flies with circle hooks before. I won't do it again for any fish where I have tension in the tippet when the fish takes. They only work reliably if the whole system is slack and the fish takes the fly in a passive manner.

I don't think they will work well at all for you snakehead Paul.

The three options I'd look at are a stinger hook behind the main hook, an articulated popper and tying on hooks with more gape. (Avoid longer shanks if you can - they give the fish leverage to work itself free.)

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

I like the idea of the hook dangling free behind the popper. I think that this is far more likely to catch. I’m not going to use tandems or stingers because it’s hard enough to get a single hook out at times. I could slide the popper onto the wire and tie the hook using a loop knot. It might require some method of fixing the popper so that it stays in one plane, also I can add some lead to the bend of the hook if required to stop skipping and to keep the hook correctly aligned. There are quite a lot of ideas to play with here!!

Cheers, Paul

[Will]

Why not try a popper on a tube? If you get the right diameter tube the loop knot will sit against the tube and keep the hook away from the body.

Agree with Graeme: short shank/wide gape.

W.

[Paul Arden]

Thanks chaps. Casts well, pops well. Slightly on the heavier side with the choice of hook but easy to modify. Now to test how it sets.

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

Looks good Paul.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Paul,

I have managed to reduce the weight a bit by not tying the tail materials onto a clipped hook shank. Instead, I whip a doubled over piece of mono to create the eye and some "shank", then tie the tail materials onto that.

I also have eliminated the split ring and simply tie a loop knot that holds the hook and tail section. A cylindrical knot, like a Uni, can then be tucked into the back of the foam body to keep it there until a fish is hooked.

I am curious why you don't use a single strand wire? A loop is easy to create and a haywire twist is much more secure than any knot that I know of. It would slip easier through the lips too? In these parts almost all use single strand for sharks on fly. There area some new SS wire brands that are supposed to be much better than the old stuff... titanium maybe? Thinner, stronger, lighter, etc... but of course more expensive. Since I used to fish offshore I have more regular wire than I will ever use, so I have not tried the new stuff.