Skagits - anything works

[Tangled]

This is an old report that I'm sure must have been discussed here but I can't see it. Is it still relevant? Is it correct?

Fly Fishing Research

http://www.flyfishingresearch.net/goods ... hrods.html

Just about any Skagit head works with just about any rod. This finding was unexpected and surprising to us, but we have now confirmed it though hundreds of hours of testing at the Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club.

Suppose you are about to fish a particular steelhead run where experience has shown that a 15 foot, 190 grain, type 8 sink tip will get your fly to just the right depth. To cover all the water, you will start with short casts, and then gradually lengthen them out to a maximum of 85 feet. You can choose any Spey rod (see Tested Rods below) paired with any Skagit head from among the RIO 7/8, 8/9. 9/10, 10/11 (450-750 grain) series. Of the many possible options, which rod-line combinations will comfortably support an 85 foot cast of a 190 grain 15 foot sink tip?

Amazingly, they all will. It doesn't matter. Despite manufacturers’ labeling of Skagit heads (that suggest, for example, pairing a 7/8 weight Skagit head with a 7/8 weight rod), we have found that virtually any Skagit head works with virtually any Spey rod. Though it might seem odd to pair a 7/8 450 grain Skagit head with an 11 weight 16 foot rod, this combination works fine for this task. Similarly, you might not think of putting a 10/11 750 grain Skagit head on a 7 weight 13 foot rod, but this combination works fine for this task as well. So does every other line and rod combination we tested.

What if you wanted to cast an 8 foot, 112 grain sink tip instead of the 190? Same answers. Similarly, same answers for all tips we tested of 225 grains or less. Try it. You might be surprised at how well you do with any of the Skagit heads paired with any Spey rod you already own.

If we had to pick a single Skagit head for use on multiple rods, we'd pick the RIO 650. This head works especially well with all the Spey rods we've tried, including the smaller, lighter rods.

In our experience, Skagit heads enable casting sink tips with amazing ease, forgiveness, and flexibility. Casting a Skagit head with a sink tip is easier on virtually any spey rod than casting a WindCutter, a longer-bellied floating line, or any other Spey line we've tried. It’s so easy, in fact, that shorter, lighter Spey rods (12’ – 13.5’) comfortably deliver the moderate-distance casts (75-90 feet) that are normally associated with longer, more powerful rods. For more information, see our articles Putting Skagit Lines to the Test and Harnessing the Magic in the Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club (GGACC) Bulletin.

Tested Rods
Rod Action Specifications
Thomas & Thomas 1206-3 Medium 12', 6-wt, 3-pc
Sage 6126-3 Medium 12'6", 6-wt, 3-pc
Thomas & Thomas 1307-3 Med-Fast 13', 7-wt, 3-pc
Sage 7136-4 Slow 13' 6", 7-wt, 4-pc
Winston Boron IIx Medium 13' 3", 7/8, 4 pc
Loomis Dredger Slow 13' 9", 8/9, Kispiox
Sage 8150 Slow 15', 8-wt, Graphite III, 4-pc
Loomis Greased Line Medium-Slow 15', 8/9, Roaring River
Burkheimer 9143 Medium 14'3", 3-pc, 8/9/10
R B Meiser Med-Fast 13'6", 4-pc, 8/9, MKS
Winston Very Fast 14' 0", 9 wt
Sage 7141-4 Med-Fast 14'1", 4-pc
Redington Red Fly Fast 13' 8/9 3-pc
Thomas & Thomas 1409-3 Fast 14' 9-wt 3-pc
Sage 9141-4 Med-Fast 14'1" 9-wt 4-pc
Fly Logic 1409-4 Med-Fast 14' 9-wt 4-pc
Sage 9129-4 TCR Very Fast 12'9" 9-wt 4-pc
Winston Slow 15', 10-wt, 9.5 oz.
Sage 10150 Medium 15' 10-wt, Graphite III, 4-pc
Thomas & Thomas 1611-3 Fast 16' 11-wt 3-pc

[Paul Arden]

Is suppose a brick on a string always feels like a brick on a string Very interesting. It would be interesting to know if any differences were detected or whether simply they “all work” but to differing degrees. The same applies to overhead casting too but there is a massive difference in feel when you start uplining/downlining.

Cheers, Paul

[Tangled]

There's more information on the tests here

http://www.flyfishingresearch.net/image ... heTest.pdf

I think at least part of the trick is restricting the cast to 85-90'.

[Paul Arden]

Thanks, Tangled! I’ll read that tomorrow in immigration

[Graeme H]

It sounds a bit like casting a 5wt MED on a 10wt rod or a 10wt line on a 3wt rod. It all "works", so it's not really a surprise that doing something like that in the two-handed casting world also works.

Cheers,
Graeme

[VGB]

It sounds a bit like casting a 5wt MED on a 10wt rod or a 10wt line on a 3wt rod. It all "works", so it's not really a surprise that doing something like that in the two-handed casting world also works.

This is true but the outcome is dependent upon caster ability. The article reads like a Rio advert, it doesn’t mention if the testers have any affiliations, neither does it mention the ability of the testers. I’ve done very little 2 handed casting, I wonder if I would come to the same conclusions?

Regards

Vince

[Tangled]

This is true but the outcome is dependent upon caster ability.

I can see that a heavy, short line on a light rod would work, though I'd be nervous. But a short, light line on a heavy rod doesn't feel like it should work (no carry). Particularly for a holiday caster like me.

The article reads like a Rio advert

Yes it does, but it was 2006, I don't know whether many others had that collection of lines to use then?

it doesn’t mention if the testers have any affiliations, neither does it mention the ability of the testers.

Don't know about affiliations but telling people - in effect - that there's no need to buy lots of lines for lots of rods wouldn't be a smart RIO marketing plan. Two of the authors are expert casters - one an FFI guy - both are engineers. They say they used the casting club for the tests so maybe we can assume some measure of competence?

I’ve done very little 2 handed casting, I wonder if I would come to the same conclusions?

That's my interest too :-) I'm not very interested about the extremes of the range, but it would be useful to know if I only need one mid range line.

[VGB]

Don't know about affiliations but telling people - in effect - that there's no need to buy lots of lines for lots of rods wouldn't be a smart RIO marketing plan.

I don't really know the market but I'm aware of multi tip lines being out there, a sort of one ring to bind them all solution.

Two of the authors are expert casters - one an FFI guy - both are engineers. They say they used the casting club for the tests so maybe we can assume some measure of competence?......

That's my interest too :-) I'm not very interested about the extremes of the range, but it would be useful to know if I only need one mid range line.

There's a lot of people that would say that being an engineer doesn't qualify you to talk about casting However, these sort of tests seem to tell you more about the casters than the limitations of the equipment in a holiday casters hands. I'm in Vancouver in the summer and hope to take a DH crash course before I went and I wouldn't invest in too much gear too quickly, I made that mistake with SH.

[Paul Arden]

From my perspective Skagit is a “heavy line on a soft rod” approach. Since they are all heavy lines it would be different to comparing overlining to underlining, more like comparing degrees of overlining.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

From my perspective Skagit is a “heavy line on a soft rod” approach. Since they are all heavy lines it would be different to comparing overlining to underlining, more like comparing degrees of overlining.

Cheers, Paul

What's overlining? Have someone come up with a standard for rods while I was out fishing? Yay

From my perspective, and I actually use skagit type lines as well as bricks on a string lines, not just talking about them on the net They are a great tool to have for certain types of fishing, in other words, same as with other lines... Most people use them to deliver a heavy sinktip and a decent fly. those two things are heavy passengers in the speytype casts, and need a strong (heavy) driver to deliver them. Hence the skagit lines, all lines can be cast on all rods, just needs someone who can cast behind the rod. If you can't cast, you're in a tough spot regardless of tackle, and might find solace in a narrow combination, but it would be better to be better, wouldn't it?

Cheers
Lasse

ps. barstool had great skagit lines in 2006