Leaders: diameter and material

[Lou Bruno]

I saw where an outfitter here in the USA built bonefish leaders; 12ft. They used hard Mason nylon for the butt section; assuming hard nylons are stiffer, the material would help in preventing the long leader from turning over on itself...yes?

Then, in a subsequent article I read this: "...that you can substitute longer segments of thicker material for shorter segments of thinner ones and achieve the same effect." The article didn't mention "soft or hard" material. But concluded with this: "diameter is the single most important parameter in calculating stiffness of a flexible material."

What effect would material hardness have on stiffness?
Lou

[Merlin]

Hi Lou

Here is a repeat of a post I made in the past about leaders design:

"There are a couple of rules of the thumb which are good to know. The main parameter controlling the rollover speed is the length of the leader, and the second one is its mass. To give some idea, reducing a leader by two to three feet is equivalent to increasing its mass by half a gram. Reducing tippet length is of course more influential than reducing the length of the butt of the leader to get some extra speed.

For line to leader connection there are two cases IMHO. For fishing, you can reduce the "impedance" (its linear density) somehow, with a rule like 66% of line diameter if you consider monofilament. If we speak of competition you should keep the linear density of the line for the butt of the leader, with the 85% rule for the diameter of the mono.

If you need speed for a given leader length, then you need mass, so think "weight forward line" and keep mass as much as possible along the leader, as you go from butt to tippet. If you need delicacy, just do the opposite!"

Diameter and material are important, if I remember well fluorocarbon is stiffer than nylon for a given diameter. I cannot not figure out what is a "hard" nylon technically speaking, I miss information

Merlin

[Lou Bruno]

Merlin
You said, "If you need speed for a given leader length, then you need mass, so think "weight forward line" and keep mass as much as possible along the leader, as you go from butt to tippet. If you need delicacy, just do the opposite!"

To clarify to increase the mass of the leader along it's length, keep the sections as large as possible....increase the diameters.
Lou

[George C]

FYI
Mason 40# 0.31"
Rio Hard Mono 30# 0.27"
Maxima clear 40# 0.24"
Seaguar (Blue Label) Fluorocarbon 40# 0.24"

For what it's worth, my experience with bonefish leaders is that as my casting has improved I get better turnover into the wind with leaders built using "softer" Maxima than "harder" Rio. The stiffness of the thicker/harder material seems to force the leader up and over as it enters the loop presenting a longer profile to the wind and impairing complete turnover.

[Paul Arden]

I’ve never understood the use of the very stiff Hard Mason nylon. I’ve tried RÍO Hard Mono. When I use very stiff nylon in my leaders I experience the same phenomenon as George and the loop opens upwards at the leader and turnover is compromised. But there is more than one way to peal an orange.

Cheers, Paul

[Merlin]

Hi Lou

Yes, more mass means larger diameters.

Merlin

[Lou Bruno]

FYI
Mason 40# 0.31"
Rio Hard Mono 30# 0.27"
Maxima clear 40# 0.24"
Seaguar (Blue Label) Fluorocarbon 40# 0.24"

The stiffness of the thicker/harder material seems to force the leader up and over as it enters the loop presenting a longer profile to the wind and impairing complete turnover.

George
The Mason 40# does have the greater diameter.
I agree with you and Paul; for my leaders I use Maxima. As a substitute for fluorocarbon, I switch to a harder nylon for my tippet only. All of my fishing these days is predominantly saltwater.

Lou

[Merlin]

I have always privileged a limp leader to help its turnover, this is why I am a furled / braided leader geek. Some of you may have experienced like me flat mono for leaders (oval section), because they always rollover on their weakest side, creating small loops. A long time ago I made flat braided leaders for my personal use (by hand), I had some time to spare for that, and they turned over nicely.

Merlin

[Paul Arden]

Hi Daniel,

How do you tie those? I imagine a a big S shape with one strand and the other two strands interesting on one side only? But I have no idea!!

What pound tippet (/diameter) do you use for bonefish, Lou? And what line weight?

Cheers, Paul

[Merlin]

Hi Paul

I have no spare flat braided leader any more, but I can remember how I made them. I took 3 strands of 3X material and braided them from the middle to prepare the loop on the line side. To make the loop I then had to braid 3 double strands for a couple of centimeters. I used some metal pieces (connections for curtains strings) to put some tension on strands and make the braiding easy. To make the flat leader I need an odd number of strands so I cut one strand and stopped it with a drop of glue. The taper is simple: 5 strands for the butt, 3 for the middle and one for the tip. At each change I glued the ends of the strands which had to be stopped. At the end of the last strand I tied a tiny loop with the 3X material to make a loop to loop connection with a tippet which was made of different diameters to build another taper.

That was more than 30 years ago...

Merlin