Wimpy back cast

[Dangermouse]

I spent a hour on the triangle method, huge improvement
Some of the loops even managed to have a point
But once I raised the rod above a 45° plane it all turned to shit

[Paul Arden]

Hi DM,

Try this one



Cheers, Paul

[Dangermouse]

Ok I got my cast looking pretty good due to the lessons and tips ( thank you very much )
I think I found the problem with my line not shooting on the back cast. It seems to be sticking to the rod on the back cast, doesn't what to go until I really put some whump into it
It's a brand new line, 6 weight on a 6/7 rod

[Lasse Karlsson]

Try turning the rings out to the side, the added friction of the line having to glide along the blank in the backcast, can be a showstopper.

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Agree with Lasse. I have a photo somewhere but that might be in my mind. Looking down the rod from butt to tip, for right handed casting, I twist the top three sections anti-clockwise by 45 degrees.

https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/twisted

Cheers, Paul

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Folks,

I have been trying a chemical alternative to twisting the guides since I commonly switch hands when fishing. Its not a big deal to twist the top section back and forth but I also commonly forget in the heat of the battle. It has been a big help for me, since it seems that algae in the Everglades might be a much bigger problem than most other places? I can run the line easily through a pad to remove the algae, with this stuff on the blank I don't have to do anything more.

So, I have been treating the rod with a spritz from a can of "mud slinger". It is a product commonly used by folks who like to run All Terrain Vehicles through swamps and mud puddles. They spray it under their fenders or on other plastic/ painted surfaces, and then at the end of the day the mud can be washed off easily. No soap or scrubbing needed. "Mud Slinger" is both a commercial name and a common name for the products: there are many different brands. It is just a very thin aerosol silicone product.

What i like about it is that I don't have to treat the line so much. I don't like really slick line, especially when fishing. The stuff virtually eliminates friction from the blank. The downside is that the rod becomes very slick, to the point that seating the ferrules becomes difficult... and you do not want it on the ferrules! Also, you have to be very conscious about over-spray: rods are thin and the spray is wide - don't treat the rod when you are standing on a tile floor! Don't ask me how I know!

The product seems to dry on the blank, so it stays on easily through days of casting. So far, I have not found any problems with the blanks or wraps. When I got it on a ferrule it seemed to be easily removed with a simple alcohol wipe.

As always... YMMV.

[Dangermouse]

I will definitely give the twist a try
I know Sunray make their rods with the bottom ring turned out, probably for the same reason

[jarmo]

Greetings.

I have been trying a chemical alternative to twisting the guides since I commonly switch hands when fishing. [snip]

So, I have been treating the rod with a spritz from a can of "mud slinger". [snip] It is just a very thin aerosol silicone product. [snip]

The stuff virtually eliminates friction from the blank. The downside is that the rod becomes very slick [snip]

Some time ago, a competition caster told me to wipe the rod with a silicone-based line treatment, and then polish the rod. The end result is a very slick rod indeed!

All the best,
Jarmo

[Paul Arden]

Thanks Gary. I wonder what is in it? I know that Lee doesn’t like Shoot because any rod repairs are a barstool. Definitely want to avoid it on the ferrules!

Cheers, Paul

[whinging pom]

Danger mouse
While silicon and rings are great discussion points and may help the comp casters gain some precious shoot.
Most guys on here with a normal fly rod and line don’t have the wimpy back cast, even with pretty rubbish gear I’m sure they don’t struggle.
( I do have your problem and can understand the frustration when the line goes back not in a loop but it kind of peters out and starts to fall away before fully unfurling then it’s a battle to form loops on the forward cast) .
The answer for us is not the tackle it’s in the mechanics of what we are doing,.., or over doing!
You’ll get there, but concentrate your enquires to your practice sessions and casting mechanics and the wonderful technical advice here.

After tips from Paul James and Lasse ( and others)I’m finding by reducing my length to shorter casts I’m starting to get better loops on the back cast . Then holding on to them casting that length back and forth, without extending you can learn to dictate wider loops and then really tight little loops…… by pulling back on power. James and Lasse both talked about concentrating on controlling the tip, for me that was excellent, it’s about developing feel. what dictates the loop formation is the rod tip path after all . It makes perfect sense and works for me to learn to control it and develop a feel for it,

When I was doing the triangle and laying tight crisp loops out to the sides I find I was watching the tip any way and then seeing the result in the line. As I took the triangle up to overhead my eye tended to go to the resultant loop and lost connection with the tip. As things got less pretty I then started trying to speed up or add power to correct it and then lengthen and all benefits of the triangle were lost and the back loop lost its form and fell apart before unfurling. I bet your there!

Same with PUALDS … if the first attempt doesn’t form a loop going back … the next attempt I try to add more snap and over power it ( so the rod bends more and your getting more arc and the rod tips all over the place). Does that sound familiar?

Try shorter manageable lengths, and when you’ve got a nice groove of back and front going stick with it and control it, wide loops narrow loops explore minimum power needed and super thin loops, then only extend a little bit at atime to maintain that feel. Watch the rod tip and concentrate on the feel. Then notice how the loops react. If you lose it pull back the length to your comfort zone and star again.

I found learning little snap casts also helped hugely to get that feel of controlling the tip.

Now maybe some more experienced will come and shoot down what I’ve said in flames and contradict my message, … which is great because it’s all part of the learning process and I’d hate to tell you the wrong things sending you further from your aim . For me though if I struggle to get things to happen,my reaction is too over power it and lose what little control I had.
The problems for me and I’m pretty sure for you, is not the slickness of the blank or a Sunray marketing gimmick.

Good luck and good practice … don’t overload yourself ….or your rod ,
Best
Pom