Teaching tip path in DH

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi everyone,
In teaching sh casting I have seen a high percentage of instructors teaching to watch tip path. Also many sh fly casting books adress tip path.

I yet never saw this being adressed similiuar in dh casting.

How about your experience in this?
Thanks,
Bernd

[Morsie]

Huge breakthrough discovery for me - so many benefits, slowing down being just the first.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Huge breakthrough discovery for me - so many benefits, slowing down being just the first.

Hi Morsie,
By huge breakthrough discovery you mean to not watch the tip or to watch the tip?
Cheers
B

[Bernd Ziesche]

What percentage of DH lessons is taken up with overhead casting, I guess it’s a small number.

Hi Vince,
Good question. I start every basic dh lesson with overhead casting. All dh lessons I took started that way, too. Göran Andersson for example started this way.
Anyway I like to share your question here!
Regards
Bernd

[Morsie]

Watching everything. The tip only at certain stages, when you can, you can't watch it all the time, but there are key moments.. And of course there are different watch points for each cast.

Where the tip is at the start of the lift.
Watch Point P run away from you during the lift
Watch the tip height
Watch the tip at the start of swing (single Spey).
Watch the anchor shape and position.
Watch the tip position at the start of the "cut" in a snap cast.
Watch where it ends up (snap and double spey).
Watch the tip at the start of the acceleration into the D.
Watch the reel position at all stages of all casts (I have found this to be particularly important).
Watch "the mouse" and the tip path during the sweep.
Watch for the trace of the anchor on the water.
Watch for the hand positions at the key position.
Watch for the hand positions at loop formation.

I'm sure I've missed a few. I am mostly a self taught caster and all of these are my reference points, especially for corrections, and for understanding what to teach.

Obviously you can't watch them all every cast, but there a string of points you can focus on during each cast. Obviously the start position is one, the hand positions another and the stop position another again.

I made a list of these points somewhere, was going to write an article titled "What to Watch" but have shelved it.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Morsie,
Excellent points. I like that your fine list and watching tip positions pre and post lift is a good pointer for sure. I teach these as well as controlling tip path in the weep (into the D) to go like "back, back, up" for example. Back can be said to be horizontal here and has to be controlled by watching sometimes.
My original question however was about the tip path during the delivery cast (D loop casts) or all overhead casts (false casts included). That's what I think is much stronger adressed in sh casting. I am wondering why that is.
Regards
Bernd

[Morsie]

Bernd, My perspective is that with a longer rod, when you need to look behind you twist at the hips, or rotate your shoulders to have a look, and with a longer rod you're going to have far greater movement at the tip as a result, and you're going to get a false reading every time.

I also think that body position, and movement, is far more significant to the cast with a 2hander than with a single hand rod - at least for me - I don't move much when I cast.

If I'm using a sh rod and want to focus on my bc I can simply stand side on and watch it without introducing a tracking error - its a default casting stance for me and many years of watching my bc allows me to keep everything straight.

On an overhead cast with a 2 hander I can only just watch my bc with a 14ft rod on my right side - right hand up - but I can't do it on my left side or I reckon I'd fall over. Joking aside I suspect there is a different balance operating when you have both hands fixed on the rod and looking up at a 14ft tip is quite different to looking up at a 9ft tip.

I had a cast this afternoon (sh rod) and I do watch the tip a great deal, but I made a point of it today and had a good play with it.

Very interesting your point re overhead casting and Goran Andersen. Much of our 2 hander casting/fishing here is overhead off the beaches, we simply don't have the rivers. There are many lessons to be learned. I grew up using shooting heads so understanding overhang and heads has made using 2 handers much easier for me, or at least its taken a big chunk out of the required "learnings". Its a great way to get the feel for using a significantly longer rod. I always have a couple of 2 handers at my casting days and finish the day off with overhead casting just for fun for the students and they LOVE it!

[Bernd Ziesche]

Bernd, My perspective is that with a longer rod, when you need to look behind you twist at the hips, or rotate your shoulders to have a look, and with a longer rod you're going to have far greater movement at the tip as a result, and you're going to get a false reading every time.

I agree when it comes to the longer dh rods, 13 feet or more. But the short ones 11 or 12 feet in an avg. cast don't make much of a differece compared to sh rods, I think.

Anyway you ve made proper points.

Isn't it interesting, that dh casting works pretty well, done overhead without watching the tip, but probably more looking at the loops to unroll for example?
According to my experience this is no different in sh casting. Only some tip watching related concepts were kind of hammered into stone maybe. Then it's hard to try different probably...

[Morsie]

By huge breakthrough discovery you mean to not watch the tip or to watch the tip?

I missed answering your question. To watch the tip, and many other moments and movements of the cast. Seeing an anchor crash without observing why it crashed teaches you nothing etc etc etc.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Thanks, mate. Already figured that from your previous post. No doubt we are using our eyes to analyse a lot!
Some say, I'd very much love to analyse a big fish (deep in the blue) pulling your tip down in an almost straight path on your side of the planet!
Cheers
B