Demonstrating tailing loops

[Paul Arden]

Forward cast Bernd and usually the final forward cast. Tails on a backcast I find considerably rarer and anyway I don’t think they are commonly caused by this straight path force belief/attempt.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

I'm often taking the picture of the first fish, I like to go fishing with the student after the lesson, to see what sticks in the wild and what doesn't. As a result, I often finish lessons reinforcing their "safe space", the set up to use when the pressure of fishing causes the casting to go to worms.

Regards

Vince

[Bernd Ziesche]

Forward cast Bernd and usually the final forward cast. Tails on a backcast I find considerably rarer and anyway I don’t think they are commonly caused by this straight path force belief/attempt.

You usually teach a novice to pull down on the final fc, but not during false casting?

Finishing the haul too soon I usually see causing tails on the bc, not the fc. Not saying there are more tails in the bc.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Paul,
when you teach a novice, you pull down in the fc. I never see you pulling down, but in fact moving your hand pretty straight in all distance casting. Why is that?
Leaving aside you may add a final upwards wristening (mainly in the delivery and not in the bc).

I see many students entering my lessons with a pretty curved rod hand path. Straightening it helps to immediately cast further and get tighter loops when desired.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

Sorry it’s not pulling down Bernd. It can be at any angle. It’s applying force to the rod butt through rotation. Ie turning the grip and not stabbing it.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Back to the topic, is demonstrating a tailing loop limited to a relatively tight loop and for that many instructors stop their rod near vertical?

If so, is that really what we want to demonstrate?

I see new students in the warm up tailing on all kind of loops often stopping relatively low. In my world we should teach this to those who then want to teach.

I still don't understand what the reason to hold on having the legs crossing is. We have discussed this many times, but I can't remember to have come across any proper reasons for this.

Teaching wise the last thing I want is teaching 2:
Tailing loop and tendency to tail. I think that's a very weird concept. Imagine we teach 2 levels for all faults. Do we need a tendency to creep as well?
Cheers
B

[VGB]

I haven't taught a tailing loop since my assessment - old way, new way

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Bernd

Exaggeration helps in showing what is meant. It has nothing to do with a tight loop, although the line between tight and tail for most is thin.

If I need to talk about tails to a student, I want to show a tail that is easily rexognized, and hopefully slow enough for the student eye to see. Showing a slight tail, a tailing tendency or a very late tail that happens at 100 feet is no go, if I want my point across, a slow immediate tail is better observed and highly repeatable.

On the issue of tail and tendency, fully agree, its one fault. The old guide quick fix of dropping the rod, to open the loop so the fly didn't catch, didn't take the fault away, only lessened the outcome.

Cheers
Lasse

[VGB]

I haven't taught a tailing loop since my assessment - old way, new way

Telling a lie, I have to those wanting help with the assessment. With normal students, I ask for a straight fly leg and we both agree that it isn't, so we change what they are doing to achieve the objective. I try to avoid a fixation on faults but rather aim for improvement.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Exaggeration helps in showing what is meant.

If I need to talk about tails to a student, I want to show a tail that is easily recognized, and hopefully slow enough for the student eye to see.

Hi Lasse,
plausible to me.
As long as you extra pronounce the same cause/causes your student shows, I agree.
Low speed? Sure helps.

For me this is a bit like accuracy in the exam. I put a target, but no ring. I don't focus on the target, but trajectory + line speed + loop shapes to match distance. As well as overall performance. If a side wind pushes the fluff little out or not, never was of my interest.
A ring kind of supports a black/white thinking. In or out.... In my exp a lot of candidates get nervous about rings and may loose focus on what matters.

Same with the legs crossing or not. I want to see the causes being demonstrated and explained. If I want to see control over the precise tailing loop, a Svirgolato might be a good pick. Seriously, I don't see a need for black/white judgement for details of outcome.

I could ask the examiner:
Is there a cause for a typical slight wave in the fly-leg, which (the cause) in 99% is very small and often hard to be seen?
Thanks
B