The stop revisited.

[NM]

Vince you wrote in the tip path tread that:

170 … the first step in the mechanics is understanding that the cast isn’t “stopless”.

Why is it not stopless?
And what is the stop, what is the purpose of it, and why are we in fly casting so focused on it in contrast to say in plug casting or when casting a ball of a flexible stick like a dog ball thrower stick?

Nils

[DryFly]

I´m not Vince but.....

There must be a "stop" - otherwise, the rod would follow the line flying away.....
When we keep the rod in our hand, than the motion of the rod tip ends anywere - it stops.
The difference for me is what I call a passive stop and a active stop.
With a passive stop my motion ends smooth without any accaleration at the end, with the active stop I make a sharp accelarated motion at the end of the cast.
This adds some extra speed to the line and so some extra distance.
But it is more work for my rod hand. Especcially with higher line classes.
I do a lot of pike fishing and cast "stopless", so no progressive acceleration at the end of the cast.
( I do always try some casts with a hard stop and I reach a few more meter but with to much work/pain for my rod hand)

So when we are accurate stopless is in my mind a wrong word, but we got used to it.

Cheers
Reinhard

[DryFly]

Spin fisher don´t talk that much about improving their casting because they reach their target easier?
Or just take a heavier plug?

When spin fisher want to max. their casting distance, than they more often talk about the better rod or line and not that much about improving their casting.
A friend, a carp fisher, practiced for hours, weeks and month to learn to cast further.
But most of the spin/ carp fisher are happy with their casting skills and don´t have to talk about casting technique?

[whinging pom]

Thoughts from duffers corner.. (which are usually flawed.. ...and will wind up Vince).

from what i gathered in your video and from my experience the 'stop' is a misleading term and an undesirable intention in most fly casting..
With your dog thrower or plug cast and with a fly cast, your looking at 'the moment of propulsion' aren't you ?
What is beyond that is deceleration, not stationary, sudden stop. Cease of momentum! Although many people seem to preach that. The stop doesn't not propel the line, it can also inhibit its propulsion and accuracy.

Like you guys mentioned in the video a sprinter hits the tape looking to accelerate up to and snap through it, not cease movement when they reach it, Aim to stop at the tape. and that way comes silver medals at best.
A boxer landing a punch to the chin and stop there will not only pull the punch but will restrict the power and increase the tension in the arm adding to fatigue and slowing the impact.
I see it as the same in the fly cast especially for distance.

You are accelerating the rod movement and haul to propel the rod tip, line and loop out in a direction at the point of maximum acceleration , then you decelerate to a point of stop. How far that goes beyond the propulsion point is pretty much immaterial to the resultant cast once the direction is set. the rate of deceleration is either proportionate and relative, or forced, which is detrimental to the efficiency.

However a desire to put the brakes on and 'stop' to flick the line forward ( like paint of a brush or tap of a hammer or Joan Wulff's power stop ) you are not only restricting the line speed at the point of propulsion, but adding tension to the arms to create this 'stop' which slows the line speed, inhibits the smoothness and the control of loop shape and thus creates tension and over gripping ( and in my case causing physiological damage to my arm).

I think the 'stop' is a mythological beastie after a certain length of line is being propelled, and becomes less relevant the more the length of line is being cast.
pom

[whinging pom]

or to put it simpler... The concept of the 'stop' created more problems and more misunderstandings in my journey to learn to cast than any other word.

[John Waters]

Thoughts from duffers corner.. (which are usually flawed.. ...and will wind up Vince).

I think the 'stop' is a mythological beastie after a certain length of line is being propelled, and becomes less relevant the more the length of line is being cast.
pom

Hi Pom,

Yep, I'm sure you'll be asked to define "certain length", but you're correct. Biomechanics supports that.

John

[nicholasfmoore]

I think the 'stop' is a mythological beastie after a certain length of line is being propelled, and becomes less relevant the more the length of line is being cast.

I really like this

All the best

[VGB]

Vince you wrote in the tip path tread that:

170 … the first step in the mechanics is understanding that the cast isn’t “stopless”.

Why is it not stopless?
And what is the stop, what is the purpose of it, and why are we in fly casting so focused on it in contrast to say in plug casting or when casting a ball of a flexible stick like a dog ball thrower stick?

Nils

Nils

Reinhard is correct

There must be a "stop" - otherwise, the rod would follow the line flying away.....
When we keep the rod in our hand, than the motion of the rod tip ends anywere - it stops.

During the casting stroke, the rod tip is propelling the line in the direction of the cast, direction being a vector. As the rod tip departs from the direction of the cast and the loop begins to form, the rod tip is no longer applying a force (also a vector) in the direction of the cast. Around loop formation the velocity (vector) of the line in the direction of the cast begins to reduce due to drag. The stop occurs when the line is no longer being accelerated in the direction of the cast.

I’ve no idea why the instructosphere got wrapped around the stop, I suspect that there was some association with the spring and stored energy. Nevertheless, the power snap stuffed up my cast for nearly a decade.

Regards

Vince

[VGB]

Like you guys mentioned in the video a sprinter hits the tape looking to accelerate up to and snap through it, not cease movement when they reach it, Aim to stop at the tape. and that way comes silver medals at best.

We might be able to work with this analogy. If the tape in a 100m line is at the 50m mark but the finish line is still at 100m. The athlete accelerates through the tape but instead of continuing to the finish, curves off to the right and end up sitting in the stand about the 80m mark. What is his rate of acceleration between 50-100m?

Regards

Vince

[VGB]

Yep, I'm sure you'll be asked to define "certain length", but you're correct. Biomechanics supports that.

How does biomechanics support that John?