to the casting Gods: what distance to reasonably expect?

[whinging pom]

Im intrigued if you can occasionally hit 138' with a 5 wt rod what actually is your margin of improvement with your competition weight rod for 5 wt??
( i know damn well you'll have analysed it to the nth degree).

Hi WP,

These are the results from the last time I ran the rod stiffness trial with a MED #5 line - all the rods were Sage TCXs, marked as #5, #7 and #10.

TCXresults.jpg

But as Lasse would point out, at this time I had been practising with the #10 rod and MED#5 for some time.

Thankyou james that’s a really informative way of seeing it. If you take off that one 37.5 anomaly on the 5 wt, the trends for the different weights is really clear and the margins appear consistent.
I assume if you put in a 6wt 8+9wt you’d find plotting that upward trend would remain pretty straight and consistent ( im sure there’s a term but I don’t remember every doing graphs and statistics I was probably expelled by then).

Obviously with some bias towards your usual set up.

So where would you assume 11wt or 12wt come on that?
As Paul says those margins may not be dramatic but (and I’ve seen at the few casting events ive been to )finding an extra 30cm can be a game changer for you guys.

Where is the point that the trend collapses? Does it follow that a 9’ 12wt would push the boundaries further?
Wp

[Lasse Karlsson]

Love how its always 2 meters more, and the excuses that it is so.
Ronny Lamdin threw 44 in '12 with a Hardy that said 5 above the handle. Bernt threw the same in '18 with a rod that said 9 above the handle.

I would argue that James' data is biased, he throws with the one that says 10 on the blank, and choose sifter rods to compare, why not two much stiffer? According to Paul, the stiffest should then show 4 meters more....

Btw, the numbers from that competition where Paul threw 2 meters more, doesn't show it across the board...

Oh well, carry on... soft rods also require you to change underwear right

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

12 is interesting Pom. I’ve experimented a little in a measured shootout in KL just prior to lockdown. I found the 12 results to be pretty wildly inconsistent and vary badly affected by a small breeze. However my longest cast came with the HT12.

Once again I believe that the difference is primarily what occurs at loop formation. Line carry is the same, but the difference is MCF opening the bottom leg of the loop.

Cheers, Paul

[James9118]

Hi WP,

The first time I performed this test I did include a rod marked #12, an Xi3. Bearing in mind that this was at a time when I only practiced with a rod marked #5 to reflect the BFCC rules at the time, I did actually produce my longest, single cast (on the day) with the #12 rod. However, as noted by Paul above, this was pretty much a fluke and I was very inconsistent with it. I also hated how it felt and, as such, dismissed it.

By the time I did my second test, the results that I posted above, I had been practicing with the #10 (which produced the second longest single cast in my first test) for some time. I've not cast a #5 MED on the #12 Xi3 since the first test.

Lasse - apart from the #12 Xi3 I don't have any stiffer rods in 9ft. Ok, maybe my Redington CPX #10 is stiffer but I don't like that with a #5 MED either - it's great with a #7 line though.

Cheers, James

[whinging pom]

Love how its always 2 meters more, and the excuses that it is so.
Ronny Lamdin threw 44 in '12 with a Hardy that said 5 above the handle. Bernt threw the same in '18 with a rod that said 9 above the handle.

I would argue that James' data is biased, he throws with the one that says 10 on the blank, and choose sifter rods to compare, why not two much stiffer? According to Paul, the stiffest should then show 4 meters more....

Btw, the numbers from that competition where Paul threw 2 meters more, doesn't show it across the board...

Oh well, carry on... soft rods also require you to change underwear right

Cheers
Lasse

( just as it was starting looking cleancut and compelling)


Finally the appearance of our mischievous agent provocateur!!!
And Normal service resumed on Sexyloops
Cheers for laugh Lasse

You have to admit with them all being TCX that there’s a consistency in…. Ok, screw that!!I’m assuming a lot of Sage rods.
What rod do you prefer for 5 wt competition?

12 is interesting Pom. I’ve experimented a little in a measured shootout in KL just prior to lockdown. I found the 12 results to be pretty wildly inconsistent and vary badly affected by a small breeze. However my longest cast came with the HT12.
.
Cheers, Paul

So I guess like sprinting in stilettos what you gain in length of stride you loose in stability and control. And it’s finding a consistent happy medium.
Is is just down to practice or would you have to gradually remodel part of the casting stroke to deal with the conterflex to overcome this?
Pom

[Paul Arden]

The cast does change slightly for me. I find myself using pull-back on the second backcast, whereas with the HT6 I would be stopless at this point. I believe the final backcast and delivery are also modified; difficult to describe but feels tighter and less of a flop. Indeed when I go back nowadays to distance with the HT6 I find it too soft.

Despite what people say I don’t think Counterflex can be adjusted, you can adjust for it, but it’s always there and is a result of (largely) the amount of force applied during the stroke.

Yes I think I would find more consistency with the HT12 with training. But dealing with a significant amount of backwind is always going to be a problem, and I’m not sure it’s possible to overcome that.

Like James I don’t like the “feel” of this combination. But that might change of course. Incidentally I believe physical strength starts to become a consideration with stiffer rods.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Lasse - apart from the #12 Xi3 I don't have any stiffer rods in 9ft. Ok, maybe my Redington CPX #10 is stiffer but I don't like that with a #5 MED either - it's great with a #7 line though.

Cheers, James

Hi James

What about the BFCC T38 rod? And then ask Mark if you can borrow Alejandros broomstick

By using the 1090 tcx you have your benchmark rod, and I would love to see numbers for 5 or 6 different rods going to really damn stiff And it's not about liking the MED5 with the rod, its about finding out if Paul is right that a stiffer rods gives you 2 meters more for free

Seeing as I have a rod that says 12 that is stiffer than the one I used last time, and that I might even have another thats even stiffer than that, I think I'll give it another shot for a third set of data.. quite busy the next few weeks though, so it'll have to wait a bit...

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

You have to admit with them all being TCX that there’s a consistency in…. Ok, screw that!!I’m assuming a lot of Sage rods.
What rod do you prefer for 5 wt competition?

Pom

Hi Pom

Yup, but since James uses the 10 for competition, all it really showed was that softer rods throw shorter when you're used to stiffer had there been a tcx1290 in the mix, we would have had better data, hopefully proving that James would have thrown 2 meters further with it than the 1090.. My hunch says nah....

I've retired my 690 TCX, and are using a echo prime 9811. I threw the MED5 across Tim's casting pool, up a hill and into his driveway, so thought I had proved Paul right... it was a lucky punch as I haven't throw it like that since, but some day I will

Cheers
Lasse

[James9118]

Hi James

What about the BFCC T38 rod? And then ask Mark if you can borrow Alejandros broomstick

By using the 1090 tcx you have your benchmark rod, and I would love to see numbers for 5 or 6 different rods going to really damn stiff And it's not about liking the MED5 with the rod, its about finding out if Paul is right that a stiffer rods gives you 2 meters more for free

Seeing as I have a rod that says 12 that is stiffer than the one I used last time, and that I might even have another thats even stiffer than that, I think I'll give it another shot for a third set of data.. quite busy the next few weeks though, so it'll have to wait a bit...

Cheers
Lasse

Hi Lasse,

That's weird - I written this message before and posted it, but then it disappeared The BFCC and my own T38 rods are nearer to 10ft than 9ft. I'm certain that going stiffer than the #10 won't give me any distance improvement. I've cast the broomstick and was happy to get ~90ft - there was no way I was going to get a 120ft with it.

Cheers, James

[whinging pom]

I've retired my 690 TCX, and are using a echo prime 9811. I threw the MED5 across Tim's casting pool, up a hill and into his driveway, so thought I had proved Paul right... it was a lucky punch as I haven't throw it like that since, but some day I will

Cheers
Lasse
[/quote]

What what what ?!!
9811?

I could only Google an 8’10” did you buy an extra inch or has it stretched over time?
So you’re on a 9 wt too. Poor old 5wt rods seem to be an endangered species confined to the accuracy hoops!
Wp