When tarpon are close

[Lou Bruno]

Most SW fly fishers probably know the "saltwater quick cast" when going long when tarpon fishing.
However when a school of tarpon come right at your boat,... directly in front of the bow, or a permit reveals itself right in front of the bow. The fisher is in the ready position with to much line out of the rod; what are the options to basically cast the leader (12ft)
and at most 3ft of fly line when time won't allow the fisher to better prepare for a short cast? Also, if the fisher is prepared for a short presentation cast what technique adaptation is best to be able cast leader (12ft) and about 3ft of fly line to such a short distance from the bow of the boat?

Lou

[Paul Arden]

Hi Lou,

This is a shot I practise ever day. Funny, I have a Zoom student who was fishing for Redfish in Texas a few weeks ago and had a few of these shots that the guide called “Oh Shit!! Shots”.

I use a Reach Cast for this. This gives me a straight line so I can immediately move the fly. I can reach in either direction so that a) the fly moves away from the fish and b) swims away from the boat. With practice you can get extremely good at this shot. I practise by hitting floating leaves and am within a dinner plate margin 95%+ of the time. But it needs training.

I haven’t watched this in a very long time but I’m sure I talk about it here…



With “Freerisers” I probably catch about 1-in-5 or 1-in-6 Snakehead with this shot. Consequently I train it a lot!!!

Cheers, Paul

[FishNoGeek]

I'm not the student in Texas that Paul referenced - at least, not yet - but I do live on the Texas coast and chase redfish regularly from a skiff. Can confirm: "Oh shit!" Shots are very much a thing. In fact, they're so much of a thing that I've adapted my rod + line riggings to accommodate them, and I'd be curious to hear commentary from the crew and whether anybody else does something similar.

I tend to keep two rods rigged in the boat whenever we're meandering in the marsh - although the terms are sloppy, they'll get us started: one fast, one slow. The "fast" setup is usually a stiffer 7wt rigged with a bonefish taper that runs pretty much true to weight and has a decently long head, 40+ feet. That's for when we've got great light and clear water, and we can spot and target fish at 60ft or farther. There's an ongoing debate here whether it's better to shoot line at fish (usually with one of the heavier, shorter heads) or carry farther and drop it on their head. I currently adhere to the carry-longer school, and those rigs serve us pretty well when conditions match what you see in the magazines when longer shots are possible.

The "slow" rig is for when we've got crappy light and/or dirty water . . . which, if I'm honest, feels like most of the time. Wind is usually more of a factor during those times as well - not a coincidence. That's when the "Oh Shit!" shots might well be all you've got: you push through the marsh as slowly and carefully as possible, knowing that there are fish about, but also that you're only going to be able to spot them in maybe a 20ft radius around the boat. Depending on conditions, we tend to keep between 1ft and 7-8ft of fly line out, plus leader - and our leaders are relatively short, maybe 7-8ft. The objective is to be able to flip to any fish within 15ish feet instantly (and smoothly, since rocking the boat is a strict no-no) without needing a false cast, and to be able to hit 15-25ft with one cast by rolling into a good flip-pickup and shooting line into the backcast.

It's important to note that this isn't really casting. I recently had a long exchange with a guide in the Keys about the so-called "saltwater quickcast" really means, and he finally convinced me that it isn't just one thing: "flipping to a fish within 15ft" and "getting line out" (starting with just a few inches of fly line out the rod tip, or maybe a couple feet at most) and "casting to a fish" are really three separate skills, and each needs to be practiced separately. That first two might lead into the third, but they need to be trained intensively and independently.

Digging deeper into those first two: say you've got just 5-10cm of fly line out the rod tip, plus a 16ft leader. That might be enough to "flip to a fish", but you also might need to get from 5-10cm out to 60ft with just 2-3 false casts. You aren't actually casting until maybe halfway through the 1st or even 2nd false cast since there simply isn't enough line out to generate line speed that'll load the rod. That's where the rigging specialization comes into play: I've had decidedly mediocre results with "fast" and "modern" rods in that sub-20ft game; I've had substantially better results with "softer" or "medium-action" rods that will actually bend a little and provide more control when during those first frantic flips.

I've tried a bunch of different lines on those softer rods, and my initial conclusion is that line taper doesn't matter much for the flip. It definitely matters for your 2nd and 3rd shots, if you get those - but that's again where the shoot-versus-carry debate takes over. I think it's that first shot that matters most, and I therefore rig and drill for that critical shot.

If we're only bringing one rod for some reason or we're blessed with one of those rare days when there are fish both near and far, the SA Amplitude Infinity Salt Smooth with a faster rod seems to be solid compromise. It's a half-size heavy but still has a long-ish head. That'd be my choice if I could only choose one weapon.

There's a caveat here: when it's super early and really flat, you don't have good light and can't really see into the water even if it is clear. If you're lucky enough to find schools and tails that can be spotted at a distance, that's again a job for the faster rod - but it's also where Paul's "snakehead shot" really shines.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Lou,

Yeah, that's a good one.

At least for tarpon I tend to go with something similar to what Paul describes: a form of the reach cast, often from a roll cast start up.

Although you generally have to leave about 8 to 9 feet of flyline outside the rod tip when standing on alert. You need that much line for the roll part, but a full reach can put the butt connection just in front of you. The fly can then be swept by a long slow strip. What is helpful is that you can place the fly to move parallel to the boat instead of drawing it (and the fish) even closer.

However, you tailor your prep based on the conditions. Of course, if vis is decent, you want to cast to fish that are spotted before they feel the boat or detect something above. If vis is bad (or the tarpon are laid up deep), then you shorten up. In the latter case you are at a distinct disadvantage because only a small percentage of fish can be enticed to eat very close to the boat. Occasionally they just don't care. Setting the hook requires patience - a fact easier to remember when typing than when one throws water in your face.

That said, around here anyway, usually when fish cannot be spotted until "Oh Shit", that means there are at least two problems: (1)the vis is either poor or the tarpon are deep and (2) the boat is moving quickly - commonly because of wind. (There is seldom much current in the Glades back country bays.) In that case, the best approach is not to drift, but pole into the wind. It works really well as even laid up tarpon will generally be facing away, so you end up slowly approaching them from behind and the boat naturally stops instead of over running them.

Just be sure you put in equal time on the poling platform or your fishing buddy is not likely to answer your future phone calls!

[George C]

There is a lot going on with close in shots while wading as opposed to in a boat.
The cast needs to be sidearm (to not spook the fish and to reduce line friction), which means the backcast target is way out to the side.
Stroke length needs to be tiny, which means RSP1 position is also way out to the side. A reach mend in this situation seems unlikely to work.
The line will hook with a weighted fly which means a vertical loop over the horizontal rod is the most accurate.
All this is counter-intuitive, the instinct is to try and flop the fly there with a big flailing overpowered stroke and no real loop.
I practice all this and it works fine but when fishing intuition/excitement typically takes over and I often blow the cast.
Getting stuck on the idea that I need to 'load the rod' to make a short cast guarantees failure.

[Lou Bruno]

Thanks everyone. Obviously on a recent tarpon trip!; I had to deal with this situation. My guide frowned on me having line floating on the water, if I could have it would have helped.
I couldn't get that experience out of my head....I wanted redemption.
Anyway, So many great ideas for me to start working on; as well as considering a softer rod.
It's tarpon season in south Florida, so I'll be prepared the next time I go out.

Thank you all.
Lou

[Paul Arden]

Yep I agree with Gary, hooking the fish is a real challenge. Once you have made the Reach the rod is at an angle to the line – it can be 90 degrees or more – fish eats, and now you have the problem that the hook set is going to bend the rod. The temptation is also to set the moment the fish eats, which never works out very well!! If I can keep my wits about me, I let the fish eat, turn away, I lift the rod back over the fish to give slack and reposition for the set. There is time if you make time These fish don’t spit the fly and I believe Tarpon are the same in this regards.

One way to speed up those long shots Brian, is to go from fly in hand to fly on water and make a slipped lift/Snakehead Shot. That will remove one false cast and possibly two. I’ve measured 25m of distance cast from 6’ of flyline outside the rod tip using the PUALD shooting shot (SA Bonefish 8). But even that is too slow for Snakehead.

Funny I heard about that debate this week from one of my students in Luisiana. For long range accuracy I am also long belly of course. It’s very easy to test what works best for you by running along a shoreline hitting the bank. Long belly is by far the more accurate for me (and you don’t have to strip all the way back to the boat to cast again! But that’s another issue). I also like the Infinity Salt for shots but I go 1/2 under instead of 1/2 over. And I would have absolutely no problems at all fishing a DT. I bet line management would be easier in the wind too. I’ve been playing with the Ballistic SW8 line that has a 60’ head. More on that later.

What was it like 40 years ago? What flylines were being used in the salt?

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Incidentally another way of looking at this cast is to think of it as an aerial-start version of the circular line repositioning move on the Snake Roll - but finish with the Reach. That makes it much easier to bring the fly to within a rod length.

Cheers, Paul

[Lou Bruno]

During my recent excursion; my first challenge was getting my fly at least 1ft closer to the fish (target,) That meant being able to cast under mangroves.
I not only had to deal with tarpon near shore, close to me but, cruising along mangrove channels. The easiest cast was sidearm towards the mangroves.
Incidentally, my guide was adamant in controlling slack, keep the line tight was his montra, when we hooked up. The other concern was ...no line floating on the water prior to a cast; which would have helped me in casting to the closer fish.

I recall a Florida guide showing me his version of the SW quick cast. He stood in the ready position with fly in hand, with about 25-30ft of combined line past the rod tip. When he made the presentation cast he would slam his rod hand against the hand that held the fly; hence a very hard stop which bent the rod and enabled very short cast..... quickly! No false casting, goal was to get the fly to the fish as soon as possible.

During the heat of battle I totally forgot his simple maneuver.
I thought the biggest challenge was the "oh shit" cast. Not casting under or near the mangroves.

One other point, not related to actual casting but equipment; that is do not use pre- made manufactured leaders. I did, and the knots failed...make your own.

Lou

[Paul Arden]

Knotted pre-made leaders? Absolutely. There are times here when I might be fishing the same leader for a week. I use a 40lb leader (long story). After about a week the slim beauty knot becomes a noticeably weak link. I’ve lost a few fish because of this (and because it takes me a while to learn from my mistakes). So I’m pretty sure pre-tied knots from the past are going to be very unreliable. That would an interesting test for James when he’s busy at work playing with his Instron.

Cheers, Paul