Raising my hand

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Bernd,

Damn right that is a long head! But, after watching Paul and Nick's last video, they were saying that the entire head, and some few feet more, have to be outside the tip... at launch (for optimum results). That means they are carrying the head plus the rod length and haul distance. I had never bothered to get that critical so out of curiosity I marked the line at the end of the head and gave it a whirl. That much carry is beyond me.

I feel I should mention that the above combo is very different from what I normally fish with. A number of my fishing rods, these days, are closer to 8 than 9 feet. And, quite a lot of my lines have much shorter heads. Not exactly "bricks on a string", or at least I don't think so, but kinda short. The heads are usually just above 30 feet and they generally weigh in the standards according to their label.

With those fishing lines, where the transition from head to running line is much more abrupt, I completely get the idea of having the entire head outside the tip.

What surprised me, when I was using the caliper on the MED, was how gentle the transition from head to running line is! Unlike my fishing lines, the last ten feet or so of the rear taper on the MED is not really that much thicker than the running line. So, I wonder if there really is much mass difference and how much it would affect loop shape at MCF... and later, loop morph?

I think I have as much fun thinking about this s**t as I do actually casting!

BTW... Paul... have you ever tried using your left hand... for drawing?

[Paul Arden]

[Paul Arden]

Yep when they tapered the running line the loop morph became less pronounced. Originally for me it was like night and day.

For me I see two components to this. Carry and Launch. It’s a long carry for sure. I’ve spent a lot more time working on carry than the launch. That came originally from competing with DTs where whoever carried the most, cast the longest. My goal was to get to the backing knot. Hauling the backing itself was a recipe for sliced fingers.

It actually gets easier to carry more MED once the head is out. At least that’s what I find.

I can get the head out with OSD by the way. Last time I measured that was at 86’ before it became uncomfortable. I can’t get the head out closed stance, no weight-shift.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

I find that a higher trajectory forward cast, which necessitates a lower trajectory backcast, gives me more distance.

It’s extremely rare to see a backcast trajectory below the horizontal with a long line, and is either flat or slightly elevated.

Paul,
I don't think you call a "slightly elevated" or "flat" trajectory to be a "lower trajectory back cast". That wouldn't make any sense.
By flat I assume you mean horizontal.
I still don't get what a lower trajectory back cast is, other than below horizontal.

Watching your videos I see an upwarded trajectory on your bc and fc. Quite logical since you as well as everyone throwns along a horizontal 8. Of course staying on a podest offers the chance to slightly lower the bc. BUT my point here

With such a long head into a tail wind (you think) your trajectory goes downwards?

was, that a downwarded trajectory doesn't help much in a tailwind for a tremendous long head ime. And it's indeed not what my WC videos showed at all. Most aim upwards for trajectory at launch.
Bottom line:
In my experience a higher trajectory fc doesn't ask for a low trajectory bc, because line direction changes during unrolling by gravity. No issue to aim above horizontal both sides.

Personally I teach to match the trajectory in the bc to lowest wind resistance for such long heads into a tailwind.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

Personally I teach to match the trajectory in the bc to lowest wind resistance for such long heads into a tailwind.

How do you teach to alter trajectory?

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Paul,
By matching the positioning and size of arc and the direction of the unrolled line to trajectory.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

Hi Bernd,

I have no idea what that means… tip path? How do you do it when it’s a stopless delivery?

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Tip path is only a result of what the caster does and it's yet impossible to see any details of tip path with our eyes only anyway.
What you call to be a stopless cast still presents a start (RSP0) and a process of stopping (RSP1 happening as in all casts). Depending on the size of angle (or as many prefer arc) inbetween RSP 0 & 1 main launch direction may be set a bit more before RSP1. The positioning of this angle/arc however has huge impact on trajectory (at launch). You tilt the angle/arc forward and trajectory will be lowered and opposite.
Then the direction of the unrolled line of course has impact, too.
The delivery usually shows RSP1 at around 10 for most experts. No idea really why you call that not to match the process of stopping anymore.
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

If I’m throwing stopless at targets I finish with the rod tip touching the water. Anyway I teach trajectory by picking targets and allow everything else to occur through training. I certainly don’t think about casting arc when casting, only when the rapid acceleration starts. The less complicated the better.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

When you dont want to teach casting arc anymore, why does it matter in the SL definitions?
I thought you were working with them.

Stopless means to finish the rod at the water?
I think I saw you stopping at 10 for distance when yet you call this a stopless delivery cast.
However your back stop usually was the one looking quite different.