When 10?

[Paul Arden]

Sure a complete refund if you are not completely ecstatic Where are you based again?

We had heard about the stiffer rods being cast in the WCs and at a Scottish Meet the makings of the British Team threw the HT6, two 8WTs and one 10WT. The only rod I knew was the HT6. Conditions were good and I threw 130. And of the four rods I cast, that was the only one I had cast before (and had been using it for distance for the previous 4 years) and it cast the shortest of the four rods.

But it wasn’t just me… James, Lee Cummings and Ben Dixon had similar results. I actually think the rod you know best is actually the one you throw shortest The 10WT was Ben’s and I’m pretty sure he had a bad turn with his own rod!

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

The “rod that we use most” didn’t apply to me Johan. The first time I cast a 10WT it cast 2m further.

When I told you to cast the MED5 quite further with my tarpon rod without having trained to cast that heavy rod ever before, you insisted to cast furthest with the 6wt. rod. So you never had tested a 10wt. back then, I assume. TO BE FAIR "back then" was 2012.
So, are the endless discussions you and Lasse had with me about increasing stiffness (coming from 5wt. labeled rods) to cast further ended now. Have you finally arrived on a labeled 10 for the 5wt. line? Did you try even heavier yet?
Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

Of course. I lose consistency with the 12 and any wind is a problem. I’ve been using the 10WT HT since Estonia. It’s a very popular rod for this event. Bart and Michal throw it. Many of the Italians. And so on.

No, the discussions between me and Lasse haven’t ended because Lasse disagrees

[Lasse Karlsson]

Because Paul where the only one getting 2 meters more in that shootout, and never rocked up at a competition unpacking a broomstick and won...

I like data, the data I have support my theory. So far the only anomaly is Paul in one shootout....

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

I suspect there is more data amongst other teams. I just think it’s less counterflex,or a more rapid recovery from it. I know it’s not a big difference.

I don’t think it’s 2m and those were just those particular results. But when the comp is measured to half a metre and your second and even third cast secures your position, if I can get 1/2m I’ll take it.

I think that’s probably where we are in this now. Just like I was writing to John recently; I think we are at the limitation of the flyline, and some have been there for 20 years. Now it’s about cm, but we are measuring to 1/2m and with a wind that can make a 10m difference.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Can't disagree with Lasse about Paul being an anomalie among human life and I don't think he does either.
I dont think we have reached a limit in the 5wt line yet. Have a strong young guy train a 13wt. rod every day half an hour for lets say 1000 days and I bet we shall see quite a distance.
I couldnt handle the tarpon rod in the wind in 2012 as I realized in the warm up. Then changed back. But this is a question of training. Not for me though. I hate casting a tarpon rod on a 5wt. line. Not much fun for me. Made me rethink my former addiction for distance.
Think about this, Paul: If you can fully bend the tarpon rod, you store more energy in it compared to a noodle. Of course the rod also has more weight to be moved during straightening, but the line weight will be less in percentage to rod weight compared to the noodle rod.


Lasse,
When I switch a ERN 5 rod to ERN 8 rod 90% of my advanced students can carry more line straight away. Did you ever test this? (5 or 6wt. line)
Cheers
B

[Lasse Karlsson]

Oh, I'm sure different teams have gotten different data, that they don't share openly

Let's just look at the data you have with your 2 meters more

With HT6(5) you threw 40,40 as longest with TCX 790 you threw 41,00 with TCR 890 41,40 with a CTS 10 you threw 42,90 and with a TCX 1090 it was 41,90. So your data suggests that even if it says 10 there's a 1 meter difference in your longest cast, what about those second and third casts needed to secure a spot in the finals?

From the same shootout, we know that Ben lost close to 5 meters in his longest between the two 10's, and the cts was his.
James basicly threw the same across the board, with the longest cast on the CTS gaining him 0,90 meter, and Lee gained 0,20 meter by using the CTS compared to his own rod.

I have bigger difference between 10 casts going for all out distance than you had between the four different rods. Actually, all the longest casts in that shoutout could have been 20 casts from a practice session of mine with one rod

And I agree, if I can get half a meter extra, I'll take it, and since I need some level of consistency and not just a single outlier one shot lucky punch, I'll go with what I have practiced with rather than something stiffer on the day

Personally, for me it's about being able to punch it harder into a back or headwind and secondly, little less counterflex.

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Bernd

Never ran tests like that on students

Softest rod I have that says 5 above the handle is a ern 5,5 and I haven't used it since the middle zero's, Most rods these days that says 5 has an ern of 6,5 or more... I'd actually hazard a guess that the most bought rods with 5 above the handle around here clocks in at around 7,5 ERN, and thats only from having cast them So your test suggests giving them a noodle and then letting them try out with gear that they are more familiar with

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

But you are evading the point I had never thrown any of these other combinations before and they all cast further for me. I didn’t have a bad round. 130’+ with the HT6/MED5 is a clonker (at least for me!). Every one of those 4 longest casts was longer than the BFCC record at the time.

I think it’s important to realise that carry is the same. Shoot is proportional to carry. Where is the difference? Counterflex! That’s why the differences at loop rollover are so small.

Sure a 12 will have less counterflex than a 10 and maybe you gain a few more cm. But at the expense of consistency. I actually think there is an argument for a slightly softer rod in a strong tail wind, not a stiffer one. If the rod is too stiff I really struggle to get the loop to fully unroll. You see that a lot in competition and I’m not alone. In such circumstances dropping to an 8WT could solve that.

Cheers, Paul

[Johan]

Sure a complete refund if you are not completely ecstatic Where are you based again?

Based
My hometown is Stockholm. By the way. I'm friends with Joakim Hammenstig "Piffen" and together we are trying to spark interest in Stockholm for Casting and the Sexyloops Flycasting Challenge. Your Essential Level.PDF is our primary bait for attracting members to the lawn. I hope you don't mind?
Our fishing club is www.esfk.se

Ecstatic
Completely ecstatic. This is a genius promise to the market. I will remember this. When things go my way I'd love to treat myself with one of these. The HT pedigree thrills me more than that of any other brand label.

First
But first things first, there is a big hole that has to be filled in my single handed arsenal above #7.