Rod damping

[John Waters]

I agree Paul, the wrist, hand and grip of both hands need to deliver both speed and control. For distance the speed is the more important, for accuracy the control is the more important.

John

[Paul Arden]

There are many things I don’t understand Vince. I studied damping in mechanical engineering and so do have some general understanding.

I’m fully aware that the rod damps. It’s easy to see the difference when you put a rod butt in a vice, bend and release the tip. I believe that this difference is mostly down to the human body absorbing the vibrations. For this to happen most effectively, the rod shouldn’t be gripped too tightly nor too loosely.

However even this will give you a very acceptable loop, so I think the window over what we can do is rather large.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

However even this will give you a very acceptable loop, so I think the window over what we can do is rather large.

What damping gives you is caster control over the outcome. Why don’t you use comp accuracy techniques for fishing, you have tight accuracy requirements for your snakehead?

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

Hi Vince,

With snakehead you literally only have 1-2 seconds to make the shot. Certain elements involved are the same as with comp accuracy of course, front and rear targeting, trajectories. But we also have to be fast.

I have found target training to have assisted my shot taking (and overall performance) and principally for this reason I teach target casting to all my students.

Interestingly I think fishing for Snakehead has improved my target accuracy, so it’s not all a one way street.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

With snakehead you literally only have 1-2 seconds to make the shot.

Paul,
2 seconds starting when you see the rise until fly hits the water?
Cheers
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

2 seconds from turning down. If you have the light and are looking you might see them for one second before they breathe. Every once in a while you’ll get a 3-4 second shot window. It’s very rare though.

[VGB]

Hi Paul

A few questions if you don’t mind.

For this to happen most effectively, the rod shouldn’t be gripped too tightly nor too loosely.

How do you teach what the grip should be, as opposed to what it is not?

With stiff rods I get hand cramps after about ten-fifteen minutes of comp accuracy.

Why does that happen, too many false casts?

Certain elements involved are the same as with comp accuracy of course, front and rear targeting, trajectories.

Are there any differences between the comp accuracy and snakehead shots ?

What percentage of the game angling fraternity, do you think would be able to produce acceptable loops using the backcast in your Post 162?

Regards

Vince

Wh

[Paul Arden]

Ooh questions and answers.

1.By having them experiment with different grips and different grip forces. The more advanced, the more we explore. With beginners “not too firm, not too soft” should be fine. Holding the rod too loosely is not something you are likely to encounter. Maybe with a child.

2. It’s 15 minutes of relatively tense grip false casting. But it doesn’t happen if you have a soft rod, like for example the Americans use. Which tells me it’s in the stop.

3. Well there is no false casting with the Snakehead Shot. There is a slipped lift with a possible change of direction), a down haul (no up) immediate shoot and slide, another down haul, shoot and check shoot with the hand repositioned to strip.

With Accuracy there is false casting, usually little or no hauling, no shoot or slip after the length is dialled in. The false cast is repeated until the caster is convinced that if he repeats the same cast and lays down it will be dead centre. We are false casting to a point above the target, which we then adjust on the laydown. It’s not really seat of the pants casting. You have 18 3/4 seconds on average to make the next laydown. Which is about 16 3/4 seconds longer than with a Snakehead shot.

You also have other considerations with a shot, such as rod angle and line height above water. Sometimes you need to curve the shot. The mind is in a different place. We certainly don’t have the hover as a gauge for judging position. That would be the biggest difference.

I use a Stopless torque twist delivery on my shots for speed. I dont use anything like that sort of speed to lay down an accuracy shot.

Hovering the fly is a technique that for me only applies to accuracy hoops. I think we get to improve our stroke by learning this, being able to repeat very closely the previous cast, teaches us as aspect to casting that we don’t use very often. If you pick up from a ring you should be able to lay down on the ring every single time. So it’s really about judging length while false casting.

That’s not possible with a Snakehead shot because we don’t have the time to false cast. They are not there to eat; they are there to breathe and it’s not the area they hang out. With babies they often cruise 10’ down. I believe as free-risers they may go as deep as the thermocline which is 15-30’ depending on season (I’ve seen them rise on the sounder).

A totally amazing fish. It’s real seat of the pants shots. You need stealth, you need to close the gap, and then, when the shot appears, you must (usually) let the fish breathe and then as it turns down your shot needs to lead the fish by about 2’. Too close it spooks. Too far it either won’t see it or it might chase. A chase is not the money shot. First bloop and the fish eats and you were in the right place. Bam!!! Put the fly in the wrong place and go bloop and very often the next rise is a spooked fish. You know they are spooked when they come up slowly and turn down fast, often with a splash. Or turn back into the babies. Or have a change of behaviour. Very absorbing fishing.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Thank you for a comprehensive answer Paul

2. It’s 15 minutes of relatively tense grip false casting. But it doesn’t happen if you have a soft rod, like for example the Americans use. Which tells me it’s in the stop.

I am not surprised that the Americans do not have a problem with their softer rods because N3 tells us that your rapid stop with a fast rod will induce a shock that is applied to the caster over a shorter time period than a slower rod. The reactive force has a greater effect on the body, than a lower force applied over a longer period of time. In mechanical systems viscoelastic material and components work to isolate impacts, attenuate shock and damp vibration. These mechanisms reduce the impact force and bring the mass slowly to rest generating a gradual deceleration to better protect delicate equipment. Similar design techniques have also been explored in a wide variety of sports equipment to reduce fatigue and injuries.

As I mentioned in Post 160, our body also works to isolate impacts, attenuate shock and damp vibration, using our bone, cartilage, synovial fluids, soft tissues and muscles. Recently, scientists discovered that human elastin in muscle tissue contains a molecular bridge or 'shock absorber' and were shocked to find that there were no red herrings involved in the process

Hovering the fly is a technique that for me only applies to accuracy hoops. I think we get to improve our stroke by learning this, being able to repeat very closely the previous cast, teaches us as aspect to casting that we don’t use very often. If you pick up from a ring you should be able to lay down on the ring every single time. So it’s really about judging length while false casting.

I use something similar to teach fly first presentations, ticking the grass or a target in front of the student to indicate success. I've never had the issue of hand fatigue but in fishing we don't have a 15 minutes task and I don't take students into those edges, preferring short bursts of activity with time to reflect in between.

1.By having them experiment with different grips and different grip forces. The more advanced, the more we explore. With beginners “not too firm, not too soft” should be fine. Holding the rod too loosely is not something you are likely to encounter. Maybe with a child.

Maybe this is a topic to take to the teaching section but I do not like to teach by negative instruction and professional class students do not react well to it ime. I think that exploration of outcomes is the way ahead but it depends on effective cueing.

Regards

Vince

[gordonjudd]

For this to happen most effectively, the rod shouldn’t be gripped too tightly nor too loosely.

Paul,
Here are some tips from Tim Rajeff on developing that "Goldilocks" relaxed grip. I would think that when you switch from a firm grip to a not so firm grip is also is something to figure out.



Tim has other videos on this subject as well.

Gordy