Rod damping

[Paul Arden]

Hi Gordy and Vince,

I think that would be a great topic to discuss. For me it involves having the student analyse what he/she is doing, which draws a certain focus they have often never before had (a totally fascinating experience for all I think), and then provide cues for alternatives to try.

To go from where they are to places you want them to explore, you first really need to understand where they actually are. The only way to do that is to have them teach you what they are doing. Things like grip and subtle forces, we can’t possibly know by watching them. We need them to explain it, so we can explore where they are and then find cues to go where you would like them to try. I think it’s fascinating and always learn from these exchanges.

Yes Vince, I think the bounce back from a stiffer rod can certainly be jarring, but the other issue is that with a stiffer rod we have to effectively stop a longer lever from the get-go. A “stop” is stopping the rod from the butt upwards. The softer the rod the less abrupt we have to be with the stop. A really good example is to compare at one extreme a fibreglass “noodle” and the other a broomstick. The broomstick won’t have any kickback but it’s very hard on the body.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Hi Paul

I wasn't talking about kickback, I'm talking about reaction forces. N3 still applies to the broomstick.

Things like grip and subtle forces, we can’t possibly know by watching them. We need them to explain it, so we can explore where they are and then find cues to go where you would like them to try. I think it’s fascinating and always learn from these exchanges.

Tim is right, it is difficult to teach and I see 3 common teaching themes in use:

1. "Since the advent of carbon, nobody uses glass and cane". This is either old documents or lazy thinking, some rods are slightly tip heavy and beginners struggle with them.
2. "You need a new rod". This not good instructional technique unless the rod is really a dog but there are less of them about now.
3. "Leave the student to work it out themselves"

I think most of us have been through (3) and out the other side, forgetting the journey afterwards. Forgetting the learning process and jumping straight to performance is imo the commonest instructor fault on the planet.

My go to remedies are to lengthen the stroke, reducing the high rates of acceleration and deceleration to achieve a given line speed. Giving the student an effective haul if they have a good baseline cast. For those that are really struggling with the baseline; use the wobbly rod leg as an external cue and point out the cause as being a bouncy tip, then walk through a grip sequence tight, relaxed tight, maybe using some suitable wildlife as a prop. To date, I haven't heard anything better than what Lasse came up with.

Regards

Vince

[gordonjudd]

To date, I haven't heard anything better than what Lasse came up with.

Vince,
Can you expand on what Lasse does to minimize after bounce? Does that effectiveness refer to his back cast or forward cast or both?
Gordy

[VGB]

It may have originally been an offline discussion Gordy, but this was where he pointed me which is an exercise for both forward and backcasts

https://www.sexyloops.co.uk/theboard/vi ... 150#p75248

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

A "budgie" is a bird? That is hysterical!

Man was I wandering off in the wrong direction! A word similar to "budgie" over here has to do with an uncomfortable situation that has to do with a mass of cotton underclothing and the crack of your ass.

As to birds, over here we call 'em a Parakeets... and yes... I have used the same analogy to describe how to grip a flyrod.

[Paul Arden]

Fibreglass rod and matching budgies. It gives a whole new meaning to rod pants.

[Graeme H]

Budgie is short for budgerigar, a small Aussie parrot.

Not to be confused with “budgie smugglers”. I’ll let you work out why we call Speedos budgie smugglers here.

Cheers, Graeme

[whinging pom]

A "budgie" is a bird? That is hysterical!

Man was I wandering off in the wrong direction! A word similar to "budgie" over here has to do with an uncomfortable situation that has to do with a mass of cotton underclothing and the crack of your ass.

As to birds, over here we call 'em a Parakeets... and yes... I have used the same analogy to describe how to grip a flyrod.

that explains why Ben Hogan described his golf grip as like holding a canary... hard enough to stop it flying away but not too hard to crush a feather.
I can see why budgie would have been a confusing analogy for gripping for you folks, over here canaries were usually blinded and the shoved down a coal mine. Its got a bit too much baggage and shame for other usage.

Incidentally Budgie was also the name of a 3 piece Welsh progressive rock band. sort of like Rush but without the semi trailers of gear, more like a Panel van or the back of a couple Utes.. i dont think they were referring to the arse crack, there again....they were welsh ?!!
WP

[Stoatstail50]

14 Hold your sword as if you were holding a bird in your hand: not too lightly to prevent his escape and not too tightly to prevent him choking.

- Justin Lafauger, 1826

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

14 Hold your sword as if you were holding a bird in your hand: not too lightly to prevent his escape and not too tightly to prevent him choking.

- Justin Lafauger, 1826

Now fencing instructions ???

Along with Mac's interest in Samauri sword techniques ???

and him often quoting...

"“Learn to close the gap between imaginary perfection and imperfect reality by practicing between education and execution of the fundamentals.”

I think I am beginning to suspect a hint of previous collusion?