Just the tip?

[Graeme H]

Hello Graeme,
My answer is no.

Regards
Bernd

That’s okay Bernd. Matt had a lot of caveats in his question, so,e of which were covered in your response.

I didn’t want to confuse the main question with lots of “it depends” answers.

Cheers, Graeme

[VGB]

Moving away from focusing on loading and unloading the rod yielded far fewer tailing loops

Not for physics but an interesting observation for teaching.

Regards

Vince

[Graeme H]

Moving away from focusing on loading and unloading the rod yielded far fewer tailing loops

Not for physics but an interesting observation for teaching.

Regards

Vince

Agreed.

I always disavow my students of the concept of “loading the rod” as being an essential of casting. It nearly always shifts a load off their mind. Immediate results almost guaranteed.

Cheers, Graeme

[Lasse Karlsson]

All else being sort of equal, I agree with Graeme. And we've known it for years, but in a world where talking about rods as if they where magic wands with similar properties, its hard to break through the BS

Cheers
Lasse

[Bernd Ziesche]

All else being sort of equal, I agree with Graeme.

Hi Lasse,
Of course you do. So do I.

And I bet you agree with me, that all else (tip path included) being equal, the angle of dangle to determine the resulting loop shape (better loop propagation).

It's just, that all else NEVER is nor will it ever be equal.

I am really not sure what this is good for?
The loop propagation we see can only be the outcome of a serious number of key configurations...

Definetly we both know, that "the line goes wherever the tip goes" (as for example Chico Fernandez said in his fine 2 tapes) was very wrong and not very helpful to learn of what really happens.

Just the tip?
Big big NO to me.
Regards
Bernd

[John Waters]

I must admit to a degree of indifference in respect of waves travelling down the rod leg.

Maybe if presentation casts were included in competition, you wouldn’t be indifferent?

After the stop, they propagate towards the loop but don’t go around it.

Vince

Hi Vince,

I do a lot of trout fishing in streams and have done so since the 60s and have actually caught a trout or two. Well maybe two is a stretch. Don't do a lot of salt water but have done a bit for different species. I can't see the issue with some waves in the rod leg, even when I do presentation casts to spooky trout in overgrown twig water.

Maybe that's why I have a long way to go in being able to put my fly in a target, even in a stream,

John

[VGB]

Hi John

It’s all about control with either leg. If you had to put your line around an obstacle on the way to a target, competition or fishing, you will need to be in control of the rod leg after loop formation. If the target and obstacle is nearby, you need to have that control very quickly.

Regards


Vince

[Graeme H]

Hi Bernd,

You are correct about the other things having an influence (sometimes large) but Matt did write this in his question:

To avoid distractions I'm assuming there is no hauling, and the line starts out straight, without slack, in an idealized back cast

He recognises it's not a perfect question but wants to know if the rod tip movement is the main thing he should concentrate on.

Cheers,
Graeme

[John Waters]

Hi John

It’s all about control with either leg. If you had to put your line around an obstacle on the way to a target, competition or fishing, you will need to be in control of the rod leg after loop formation. If the target and obstacle is nearby, you need to have that control very quickly.

Regards


Vince

Hi Vince,

I agree with you about the need for control, but in my view a small wave in the rod leg does not really detract from that objective.

John

[Paul Arden]

Moving away from focusing on loading and unloading the rod yielded far fewer tailing loops

Not for physics but an interesting observation for teaching.

Regards

Vince

Agreed.

I always disavow my students of the concept of “loading the rod” as being an essential of casting. It nearly always shifts a load off their mind. Immediate results almost guaranteed.

Cheers, Graeme

Agreed. But in those rare cases where it makes it better I let it go