WC rules and it's impact

[John Waters]

I genuinely don’t worry about it. The way to get better participation is clubs at grass roots level. From that a few will come through to championship level.

Hi John/Nils/Paul

I am not going to go through your individual posts but I'll pick up on Paul's point above, there is no grass roots competition level, except maybe in 1 or 2 countries. Even here, you have a forum full of casting geeks, the majority of which do not compete. As far as I can see with your specialised equipment and objections to any format change, you are not going to change anything any time soon. I wish you well but I will remain an interested observer and spend any spare cash on fishing trips.

Regards

Vince

Hi Vince,

Please read my posts and you will see I am open to change for the ICSF lines, I’m against “ditching “ them now though. If that happens the sport will lose much, much more than it gains. I know both Nils and Paul are open to change, Nils has come from a traditional casting background and embraced fly casting events. Paul has come from a fishing background and embraced the fly casting events.
There is grass roots level entry channels in a number of casting nations, most are not fly fishers.

There are a number of challenges and there will be changes. The attempts to design events around fishing gear and fishing scenarios do not seemed to have resulted in sustained growth, anywhere, either so the changes that will occur will not be those.

Whatever the changes are there is one certainty; they won’t suit everybody but then, nothing in life does.

Excellent discussion,

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi John,

I don’t see a need to change the T38 and T120 events. This is entirely up to the guys who compete in these events. I have a few friends who love the T38 as it is. I think it’s great that these events exist.

If it’s unlikely that I’m going to train T38 & T120, then I can say it’s virtually unthinkable that I for one would train any of the other events. I don’t think I’ve caught a fish on spinning tackle for over 30 years! I did find it very interesting that you can “check the shoot” with a fixed spool reel. Amazing what you learn here

I would like to see both events held simultaneously. I think the exchange of knowledge would be fascinating.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

There are a number of challenges and there will be changes. The attempts to design events around fishing gear and fishing scenarios do not seemed to have resulted in sustained growth, anywhere, either so the changes that will occur will not be those.

Hi John

It wasn’t intended to be a pointed comment, just a blanket response to all of you because I was short of time. My apologies if it read otherwise.

Any time I have seen 2 or more casting geeks of any persuasion get together, they start to do stuff similar to the shootouts Paul mentioned. It happens in the fringes of BFCC events, instructor get together or a social event. The rules and equipment are usually made up on the spot and may involve beer. People gravitate towards them because they are fun and there’s little risk to fragile egos. I don’t see that sort of environment in competition casting but the social aspect is needed to engage casual anglers.

Regards

Vince

[Lasse Karlsson]

Another fun competition of course, is lumiline fighting in the dark. This game to the death, on floating logs, would make for a great event at the WCs and would be very spectator friendly.

Cheers, Paul

I'll be up for that, when are the lumilines ready

[Paul Arden]

Believe me Vince, the “social aspect” is one reason why the distances are less than in training I’ve stopped arriving three days early because my body can’t take it anymore! Everyone who casts is a friend and I’ve fished together with many of them. I’d like to see them all win but that’s not possible. It seems to attract a certain type of crazy fisherman.

Soon Lasse!!

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Paul, you were so social at Milton, I would have beaten you if I could have made it . Where I was going with that post was to run the social Danish games style events alongside the jockstrap competitions, to try and get some feed into the sport. Don't allow people to enter both events though.

Regards

Vince

[Lasse Karlsson]

Vince, ask how Paul is at the Danish casting games, with murphies

Cheers
Lasse

Ps. Paul, great to hear

[John Waters]

There are a number of challenges and there will be changes. The attempts to design events around fishing gear and fishing scenarios do not seemed to have resulted in sustained growth, anywhere, either so the changes that will occur will not be those.

Hi John

It wasn’t intended to be a pointed comment, just a blanket response to all of you because I was short of time. My apologies if it read otherwise.

Any time I have seen 2 or more casting geeks of any persuasion get together, they start to do stuff similar to the shootouts Paul mentioned. It happens in the fringes of BFCC events, instructor get together or a social event. The rules and equipment are usually made up on the spot and may involve beer. People gravitate towards them because they are fun and there’s little risk to fragile egos. I don’t see that sort of environment in competition casting but the social aspect is needed to engage casual anglers.

Regards

Vince

Hi Vince,

No worries, it's interesting isn't it? I have never attended a BFCC event, although I would love to. Maybe next year if I can get the planets to align. I have been to many world casting championships and national casting championships in various countries. On every occasion, I have found competition casters very friendly, engaging, helpful and welcoming. I've had gear lent to me by competitors, to use against them in competition, had direct instruction and advice (free) from those I am competing against and had extensive follow up from those same competitors after I have returned home. There is a great deal of beer and wine also. There is a great deal of social interaction on each day of the event, and the banquets are very friendly and egoless events. I've seen some egos on display however, at instructor gatherings, and boy, some of them have been eye-opening.
I've been a guest at competitors' houses during competitions and on family holidays, travelled with competitors, fished with competitors and never seen an ego on display.

Of course, casters are there to win, but I have found most want to foster the sport both during the competition, and outside it.

My experiences have been the same when attending traditional casting events or fly casting events.

Maybe my positive experiences of fly and traditional casting tournaments, and the people who attend them, are the result of my magnetic, captivating and charismatic personality , but those who know me would definitely not support that statement.

John

[John Waters]

Hi John,

I don’t see a need to change the T38 and T120 events. This is entirely up to the guys who compete in these events. I have a few friends who love the T38 as it is. I think it’s great that these events exist.

If it’s unlikely that I’m going to train T38 & T120, then I can say it’s virtually unthinkable that I for one would train any of the other events. I don’t think I’ve caught a fish on spinning tackle for over 30 years! I did find it very interesting that you can “check the shoot” with a fixed spool reel. Amazing what you learn here

I would like to see both events held simultaneously. I think the exchange of knowledge would be fascinating.

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

Excellent post, my only suggestion about the colour of lines in the T38 and T120 is that it may improve the visibility of the event. I absolute agree that we should have the two WCs together. They could be run within a day or two in the one region. That would be a great concept. Sweden and Italy have been innovative with that. I like having all 15 events being available, plenty of choice for people to opt in and out of. In fact I would like to add one event to the fly casting WCs. Casters can specialise in one event only, or train and compete in multiple events. The choice is theirs and that has stood the test of time. 2024 certainly presents new challenges for the sport. It was great to see Pavel and Jan compete in the fly events in Norway last year. We can learn a lot from each other. Feathering the plug in flight in the plug accuracy is a great fishing skill, as is curving the path of the plug to the target for the side casts in the plug Arenburg event.

Hope to be able to have a chat and a cast with you next year,

John

[Paul Arden]

Maybe my positive experiences of fly and traditional casting tournaments, and the people who attend them, are the result of my magnetic, captivating and charismatic personality

Yes that must be it. But I’ve found the same thing too. In fact I always borrow tackle for the overhead salmon and usually the T27 too. Just don’t borrow a fly line from Lasse Or if you do find, out where the tackle check area is first!!

These are many of our best friends. Too right about the ego. I have a theory about that. To enter a competition you have to be prepared to lose (not “prepare to lose” but realise it’s just a game and there is only one gold medal in each event and there are some very good casters attending). The big egos don’t want to lose in case they think are shown up and so don’t enter (of course they are never shown up and hats off to anyone who competes). Interestingly this fear of being shown up stays with them and so they tell everyone it’s not “fishing casting” and instead is some obscure event that has nothing to do with catching fish. Maybe it’s me but I find that hugely entertaining! I usually say “what about the Double Haul? That came out of competition!” I wonder if there were people back then who said “you don’t need the double haul, that’s for competition flycasting and not fishing”. I bet there were!!!

Paul, you were so social at Milton, I would have beaten you if I could have made it . Where I was going with that post was to run the social Danish games style events alongside the jockstrap competitions, to try and get some feed into the sport. Don't allow people to enter both events though.

If I can’t enter both events then I’m definitely going to get beaten! Why would you only allow entry to one event? Maybe I would just enter the Danish Games event.

Cheers, Paul