WC rules and it's impact

[Paul Arden]

Maybe I would just enter the Danish Games event.

Cheers, Paul

You'll get beaten there, we know

Cheers
Lasse

I’m sure

[John Waters]

That bloody double haul has ruined fly fishing, it's the fifth horseman of the apocalypse. As for tournament casters, I hope all their chickens turn into emus and kick their dunnies down.

That’s nearly a century since your last major added value

What does that make the scoreline?


John

[Torsten]

Hi John, Paul,

I don't know if I can follow you about the ego-thing; in my experience you can find all kinds of character traits among the competitors (like the rest of the society), it would surprise me otherwise. Not in all cases they get along well, I remember a case, one woman of the national team had to be banned because of her behaviour. And I can understand if not all people like to compete or fear competitions. Almost anybody I know is disappointed of they score not well, it's then the job of the coach to build them up and motivate them again. Our senior coach told me that he had to deal often with crying kids.

But back to topic,

I don’t see a need to change the T38 and T120 events. This is entirely up to the guys who compete in these events. I have a few friends who love the T38 as it is. I think it’s great that these events exist.

That means in summary, you don't support the japanese proposal (?)

Greetings,
Torsten

Subject: Proposal from Japan Casting Sport Federation, about Changing fly lines for
competition.


In light of the fact that barstool has stopped supplying competition fly lines, we believe that the
time has come to change the way we think about competition fly lines. We believe that it is a
matter of survival of the sport of casting to adopt rules that will make fishing tackle
manufacturers more interested in the sport of casting.

We need to integrate the rules with fly casting rules to not only increase the casting population,
but also to attract participants from other types of fishing.

On the other hand, we also believe that it is practically impossible to change lines immediately.
We cannot abandon the lines we are already using. Then we think we should work on changing
the line with a buffer of several years.

At the same time, we think it is necessary to approach other line manufacturers besides
Airflow to see if it is possible to create a new line. If no manufacturer can be found during the
three-year transition period, we may switch, and if one can be found, we may leave it as it is.
However, this would be on a 120g line and we think it is desirable to reduce the weight of
single handed lines. Maybe make the 27g Sea Trout games from Fly Casting, or a little heavier
(30g?).

Competition fly lines are not required for accuracy competitions. We believe that a floating
line should be used for more and better visibility. If we were to specify it would be a 27g sea
trout fly line, but there are already several different types of line available for this.
For these reasons, it is proposed that competition fly lines for fly events should be…
=Fly Accuracy.
The choice of line shall be free. Any line shall be acceptable.
(or 27g floating line, with sea trout).
=Fly Single-handed Distance
-Change the weight of the line to 34g, while the choice of line, modification and repair shall
be free. (Metal core lines are not permitted)
=Fly Double-handed Distance
After 3 years, the weight of the line is to be changed. Weight to be negotiated.

[VGB]

Our senior coach told me that he had to deal often with crying kids.

I think it was because Paul joined their competition

[NM]

You can't impress any fly fisher with a T38 line, Nils, they are rather scared - that was my impression, because I've demonstrated T38 casting for the Fario club in Berlin once. For them the rod is a broomstick and the line an unrealistic heavy leadcore trolling line. T

Torsten, I have had fly fishers that’s been impressed by the length you can cast the T38, and I have had fly fishers that’s been scared by how far we cast the MED5 and reacted like some of those Paul described in post #210. I do find the flight of fly line of a well-executed distance cast (ST27, T38, and T120 in particular) to be both beautiful and impressive—it’s one of the things that makes distance casting fun.

The proposal to use a grey line again is a joke right?

I don’t know of any one that’s suggested we go back to the grey line. Do you? It was a better line to cast than the current barstool ones, though. There’s a somewhat thicker bright orange SA T38 that’s quite visible and approved for event #2 single hand distance but that’s currently only(?) used for event #1 fly accuracy, I think. It’s a nice line to cast, but it goes shorter unless there’s a strong tail wind. I am not sure why we ended up with the barstool line instead of that one when they decided to require the lines to be orange in order to increase visibility. I had left the sport and moved to the US at that time. The green and yellow lines we used before the grey ones were also ticker and more visible. They were good in strong tailwind as well—Leif Stavmo won the T38/42 with a cast of 70m at the 1979 WC and I think the winning T120 was around 90+m. So, it should be possible to produce lines that quite visible even without going all the way to a floating line. There’s quite a difference in casting a fast sinking line compared to a floating line, and it might be worthwhile keeping the T38 and T120 lines as fast sinking ones, including to ensure sufficient variability among the events.

Best,

Nils

[Paul Arden]

That means in summary, you don't support the japanese proposal (?)

It’s not my position to approve or disapprove. That is a choice for the majority of the active competitors I believe.

What was the Japanese proposal? I plan to invite Japan over to the championships in Malaysia. When I met the casters in Millom they had just been out to experience British fish and chips. A fine cuisine!!

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

When I met the casters in Millom they had just been out to experience British fish and chips. A fine cuisine!!

Yeah, gravy on chips is a crime

[John Waters]

Hi John, Paul,

I don't know if I can follow you about the ego-thing; in my experience you can find all kinds of character traits among the competitors (like the rest of the society), it would surprise me otherwise. Not in all cases they get along well, I remember a case, one woman of the national team had to be banned because of her behaviour. And I can understand if not all people like to compete or fear competitions. Almost anybody I know is disappointed of they score not well, it's then the job of the coach to build them up and motivate them again. Our senior coach told me that he had to deal often with crying kids.

But back to topic,

I don’t see a need to change the T38 and T120 events. This is entirely up to the guys who compete in these events. I have a few friends who love the T38 as it is. I think it’s great that these events exist.

That means in summary, you don't support the japanese proposal (?)

Greetings,
Torsten

Subject: Proposal from Japan Casting Sport Federation, about Changing fly lines for
competition.


In light of the fact that barstool has stopped supplying competition fly lines, we believe that the
time has come to change the way we think about competition fly lines. We believe that it is a
matter of survival of the sport of casting to adopt rules that will make fishing tackle
manufacturers more interested in the sport of casting.

We need to integrate the rules with fly casting rules to not only increase the casting population,
but also to attract participants from other types of fishing.

On the other hand, we also believe that it is practically impossible to change lines immediately.
We cannot abandon the lines we are already using. Then we think we should work on changing
the line with a buffer of several years.

At the same time, we think it is necessary to approach other line manufacturers besides
Airflow to see if it is possible to create a new line. If no manufacturer can be found during the
three-year transition period, we may switch, and if one can be found, we may leave it as it is.
However, this would be on a 120g line and we think it is desirable to reduce the weight of
single handed lines. Maybe make the 27g Sea Trout games from Fly Casting, or a little heavier
(30g?).

Competition fly lines are not required for accuracy competitions. We believe that a floating
line should be used for more and better visibility. If we were to specify it would be a 27g sea
trout fly line, but there are already several different types of line available for this.
For these reasons, it is proposed that competition fly lines for fly events should be…
=Fly Accuracy.
The choice of line shall be free. Any line shall be acceptable.
(or 27g floating line, with sea trout).
=Fly Single-handed Distance
-Change the weight of the line to 34g, while the choice of line, modification and repair shall
be free. (Metal core lines are not permitted)
=Fly Double-handed Distance
After 3 years, the weight of the line is to be changed. Weight to be negotiated.

Hi Torsten,

It's about respect amongst competitors. Respect underpins the behaviours I have experienced in WCs. Of course, in a competition, participants will be disappointed, they spend money on equipment, travel etc., and train for years to achieve whatever objective they set themselves to achieve.
Sport is emotional, that is what underpins competition, and yes, tears come with that. The issue is about not letting the emotion of that disappointment erode your respect for casting and other casters. You will always get someone who reacts badly, you know caster, but I know of no-one in my 50 years of attending WCs.

At every WC I've seen caster disappointment, but never disrespect.

John

[Paul Arden]

If the line is 34g and density is not specified then everyone will use the most dense lines available (which are dark grey).

I’m surprised by the challenges in buying 38g lines. Surely if you commit to buying a large enough quantity, then any manufacturer who can make them will make them.

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

If the line is 34g and density is not specified then everyone will use the most dense lines available (which are dark grey).

I’m surprised by the challenges in buying 38g lines. Surely if you commit to buying a large enough quantity, then any manufacturer who can make them will make them.

Cheers, Paul

I agree Paul.

I also agree with Nils, seen some magic loops in both the 38 and 120 lines but I think we need to examine visibility before weight.

It will take some time to get lines distributed to member countries and collate feedback on any amended density and weight but we have time for a group of 38 and 120 casters to be involved in the decision. Kenji’s proposal provides for that.

John