Paul teaching OSD and 170

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi John,
Why you started stepping? Whats the benefit for you?
Regards
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

Hi John,

It wouldn’t surprise me if half the competitors are stepping in the next WCs.

I’m looking forward to hearing the excuse of not going to the competition because everyone is stepping and that rocks the boat when fishing

Ooh almost a full moon!

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Hi John,
Why you started stepping? Whats the benefit for you?
Regards
Bernd

Hi Bernd,

The caveat on my opinion about stepping is that I have only begun stepping in last few years, initially not on every occasion because it felt uncomfortable and unstable, but now step on every distance cast. The interesting thing for me is that stepping with the rod hand foot is now best practice. Last world championships, more recent videos of casters doing that is ample evidence that it is the most common patterning used. I question that patterning and in doing so makes that questioning of what the best of the best do, seem quite ridiculous . That aside, stepping pulls sag out of the backcast and generates linear velocity before any velocity from body segment rotation adds to line speed. In my view, the most important thing it delivers is providing the opportunity to deliver greater rod hand speed from body rotation. It allows the caster to activate the rod side knee and hip more effectively than is activated by a static stance. Again, you need to consider which foot you use as your lead foot and which you use as your pivot foot, but I'll leave that for instructors and their organisations to debate. The issue I had when I changed from static stance to stepping, was the restriction of the casting platform dimensions imposed and being stable at each step taken. That took time but was worth the effort. Again I refer to other throwing sports and the sport science that supports the movement patterns employed in each. IMHO it would be erroneous to only consider stepping only as a means of moving the line, the more valuable outcome is how it opens the body to stretch and release opportunities, external shoulder rotation or layback. being one, under-utilised opportunity for casters.

It will be interesting to see what is on display in Sweden next year,

John

[Bernd Ziesche]

Thanks a lot, John for your fine and detailed answer.
Regards
Bernd

[Lasse Karlsson]

That was an interesting finals. A storm blew straight down the lake. At one point in the competition the pontoons were rocking up and down so much the competitors could hardly stay upright. Literally Steve was barely hanging on in the outside pontoon

Lee and I were having a good chuckle about that, from out vantage point behind a tree.

Cheers, Paul

Oh yeah, the windroulette struck again

Cheers
Lasse

[John Waters]

Hi John,

It wouldn’t surprise me if half the competitors are stepping in the next WCs.

I’m looking forward to hearing the excuse of not going to the competition because everyone is stepping and that rocks the boat when fishing

Ooh almost a full moon!

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

Might exceed 50%.

John

[Bernd Ziesche]

That aside, stepping pulls sag out of the backcast and generates linear velocity before any velocity from body segment rotation adds to line speed.

Hi John,
Paul said, that using a longer rod hand path in 170 vs. OSD wasnt resulting in more speed (as I claimed), because Paul to some degree slides. To some degree is my saying, because I am sure sliding/repositioning moves the line at least to some degree (tip travel imo is longer than line hand travel during slide/repositioning).
Since stepping takes place during unrolling, I think it has the same effect as when you slide into the final acceleration instead of starting by zero. Makes sense the way you put it into context though.
I see the biggest advantage in shortening the distance the line end travels against tail wind. Longest stepping I saw was Mikael Blomberg. Outcome was he won in longest carry.
Regards
Bernd

[John Waters]

Hi Bernd,

Stepping and its impact on performance is an interesting subject for instructors. I think there is a lot of potential in the move. I was impressed with Michael Bloomberg's use of the step in Cumbria and I enjoyed a discussion with him about it one day. He was so balanced when stepping. We tend to see it from a linear viewpoint but I think its potential lies in setting up rotational velocity. I don't slide or reposition during the release cast as it limits the stretch/release potential of the body which can only be achieved through rotation.

John

[Paul Arden]

Paul said, that using a longer rod hand path in 170 vs. OSD wasnt resulting in more speed (as I claimed)

Paul did not say that. What Paul said was:

The real difference between OSD and 170 IMO is the backcast. There maybe some small gains with body momentum with the 170 in the forward cast, and possibly connecting with the line while the body is already in motion. But I think the primary gain by far is the higher line speed backcast.

What Bernd interprets out of this is that Paul thinks there is no difference in speed. I think that there is a difference but it is marginal, which is why Steve will always be a threat in this event. Where Steve really has struggled is when we have experienced very strong tail winds.

Since stepping takes place during unrolling, I think it has the same effect as when you slide into the final acceleration instead of starting by zero.

This is incorrect. If the haul feed returns to its original position (and line isn’t being slipped/shot) then stepping will have a direct contribution to flyline movement.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Paul,
I read you like this:

The main reason a I don’t use a longer stroke length with OSD is because it’s unnecessary.

I assume it follows then, you agree, that your delivery could be same for both as soon as you lengthen stroke a bit on your OSD.

How should it be lengthened?

For me, the forward casting stroke length is the same for both those casts.

I think you stretch your rod hand arm quite more in the 170.

Of course but that’s followed by Slide.

How can stretching the arm further back in OSD be unnecessary, if the additional rod hand path adds up to max rod hand speed? Same with stepping. If it adds up... that's a bonus.

Anyway, good if we agree, that the longer path does add to max speed.

Since stepping takes place during unrolling, I think it has the same effect as when you slide into the final acceleration instead of starting by zero.

This is incorrect. If the haul feed returns to its original position (and line isn’t being slipped/shot) then stepping will have a direct contribution to flyline movement.

Repositioning the tip from almost down on the grass while the rod hand arm is stretched, to a position at 1 pm and the arm not stretched has quite a contribution to the line, too. Even if you slide some. Its a tip travel of several meters!
Regards
Bernd