Learning syllabus - certifications

[Paul Arden]

I think there needs to be an awareness of the backcast target ingrained. Not only where it is but that some part of the mind is still on the back target up until loop straight. “Ring the bell”. This takes a lot of training. Many months. But it is essential. I can tell you that every cast I ever make nowadays has this back target awareness in place and it really has developed from pressure shots (and accuracy hoops incidentally).

If you have a Clouser or Popper on the end you absolutely know loop straight. You can feel it, and that fly hangs in the air. This is the stuff that needs training. A snakehead shot without rear target awareness, is simply never going to reach the fish. Believe me I’ve witnessed it many many times

As coaches, as teachers for flycasters taking shots, as guides, we need to teach this ability. Making a backcast without watching it is absolutely critical to success when accurate shots are required in sight fishing. (I don’t count GTs by the way because they will change direction and swim 30’ to take a fly!).

Cheers, Paul

[Stoatstail50]

Definitely at the beginning feel is useless…. Unless we are referring to ‘feel the rod load’…. which I know most don’t like as a term…. Certainly at the beginning if you are casting to ‘feel’ the rod, I’d suggest you are massively overpowering the cast… I certainly was

All you have got for ages is your eyes, it is the only reliable way to interpret what is happening.

It is extraordinarily difficult to persuade people of this.

Hardly any lets the loop fully unroll, most start way to early. There's nothing to "feel" and everyone benefits more from watching the line in front while counting, and then repeating the count behind for a starting point. Timing, having a similar pause between strokes.
Feel often belongs with rodload, in the trashcan.

Yup

[VGB]

I wonder what the chances are of escaping the hounds if I use a popper or clouser on a chalkstream

[Boisker]

I wonder what the chances are of escaping the hounds if I use a popper or clouser on a chalkstream

Early mornings Vince, just as day breaks… no-one will ever know

[VGB]

I have to scourge myself if I use a nymph. It’s not mandatory but I think that it’s the right thing to do.

[Lasse Karlsson]

I don't believe people who's best argument is, believe me

And since most flyfisher ever only practices a minute amount of what they need, saying something takes months of dedicated training will almost never happen.
I first heard about havingva target 180 degrees from the forward one, from Peter Hayes in 2007. Its a nice trick, but personally I rarely use it, and definetly not for hitting a target in front. Especially when I don't look at the imaginary ring in the sky, or bell or fish and have to imagine I do, when at the same time dodging waves and slim rocks and wind and a ton of other restrictions. Poor beginners

Cheers
Lasse

[Stoatstail50]

As coaches, as teachers for flycasters taking shots, as guides, we need to teach this ability. Making a backcast without watching it is absolutely critical to success

We’re in the wrong section for this now. However, if the basics are taught effectively then there is zero need to specifically focus teaching time on this because it happens anyway as a result of drilling varying plane, trajectory and body positions.

If you ask someone to show you their casting early in a lesson they will almost invariably adopt a facing the target, elbow up down position. Anyone teaching cross body, look both ways, loop control will know how keen casters are to get back into this closed demo style cast. It’s very common to keep having to turn them back open.

If a caster turns into that vertical position too soon then the rhythm and timing, that Lasse correctly indicates that we rely on, is not well established enough to be reliable and it all goes to pot again.

Plus, in a lesson where you are very likely pressing hard on the need to look, getting someone to specifically concentrate on not looking is quite likely to introduce some dissonance.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

I think there needs to be an awareness of the backcast target ingrained. Not only where it is but that some part of the mind is still on the back target up until loop straight. “Ring the bell”.

Cheers, Paul

Paul,

Is your bell a tip path target or a true fly-at-turnover target?

It seems to me that if it is a tip path target, the real fly (ie not fluff) will probably be lower at line straight, but if it is a true fly target, then the trajectory of the tip path will probably have to be higher to compensate for the fly dropping.

I've been casting a lot of Clousers lately, and I can assure you they do not hang in the air... at least not mine!

Gary

[Paul Arden]

That’s a very good question Gary. It’s the fly target at loop straight and everything else has to adjust. But I also know it doesn’t always work out that way. Even our high targets can end up lower than we think. Very frustrating

Ultimately the forward turnover tells us if our backcast target has been elevated enough. Which is why and how we adjust our training of course.

Good question. We do the same thing. For me I love it. It’s the pinnacle of fly fishing/casting – shots. We really must get together.

I assume it’s the same for you, but I don’t know, when working on someone’s shot taking I concentrate on two things: 1 the target (not the fish) 2 the backcast target. 3 the front target. If that’s all you have to worry about then you are in the game.


Mark, don’t agree. I take CIs fishing. To catch a fish where I live, they need to train their backcast target. This is CIs. It’s possible to be a CI and not be able to take a shot. I really hope you come fishing with me, but before you come here I want to work with you on shots for 3 months first. With this you might catch 5 fish in a week. Without this maybe 1. Or none. There are not many open invites but you have one. Of course.

And since most flyfisher ever only practices a minute amount of what they need, saying something takes months of dedicated training will almost never happen.

Fuck ‘em. They’re not coming fishing with me then

Cheers, Paul

[Stoatstail50]

This is the beginners section Paul. The thread is on a curriculum for beginners. It may well be read by beginners or recreational anglers trying to improve their casting.

My recommendation for beginners or recreational anglers is that they learn to control loops through a wide range of planes, trajectories and body positions. Their principal feedback mechanism is going to be what they can see and that means looking both ways.

Yours is to recommend they start by trying to do something it takes a competent CI level caster a month to master ?