Learning syllabus - certifications

[Lasse Karlsson]

OK….you guys are pretty handy with a fly rod, a beginner reading this is going to think “feel” is the principle mechanism for experts to assess the success or failure of a casting stroke…any time…which it isn’t. How many beginners are holding up 97’of lumiline in the dark ffs ?

If they never try, we don't know, do we?

I thought I stressed that I need vision to get the best out of me, and I was disagreeing with Paul. That alone should be enough to know he is in the wrong here.

Feel is like a flyrod, a long way down the list. But handy when you need it, and have practiced to get it. Beginners usually think flyrods are the most important though.

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

Have you tried casting to targets eyes closed? If I sight a leaf, close my eyes and make a snakehead shot it’s very close. For me I think this sort of training is actually very good practise. It’s certainly adds an element of interest!

I’ll get the lines sorted.

Cheers, Paul

I've spend a good portion nightfishing too, and I always hold back because I know it will never be as good as when I look.
And you sighted before casting. It's difficult not to get close then. What happens if we move that leaf out to 120 feet, will you still get close?

And good to know I don't qualify for your advanced level

And great with the lines!

Cheers
Lasse

[VGB]

I totally agree. Sight is the principal learning mechanism for a beginner, intermediate and even advanced level. But in that advanced level then I think feel becomes really quite important. Up until then I think it can often be a hindrance.

It’s interesting how quickly performance and learning get mixed up in these discussions, it’s a hard habit to break.

An advanced level caster for me, has a full range of single handed Spey casts to 70’, full range of presentation casts with control and accuracy, can throw 110-115’ forwards and take 80’ shots backwards, will shoot 45+ out of 80 in accuracy. And doesn’t have to think about any of it. That’s really the door I try to open. Some of my students can already do all of that before we meet of course. Others it’s going to take some time but it’s attainable for everyone………

Quite tough with the 7’ #3 rods, many anglers use around here

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

I've spend a good portion nightfishing too, and I always hold back because I know it will never be as good as when I look.

Totally. I agree with that. In fact I hold back when fishing in daylight too.

The question is do you think it increases performance abilities to train eyes closed? I don’t know, but I know quite a few people who think it does.

I do think developing feel is very important. For example taking a shot at a moving fish, here we can’t watch our backcast because when we do this and look back we have lost sight of the moving fish. We have a backcast target in our minds of course, I talk of an imaginary bell that we must ring, and we must allow the loop to fully unroll behind us before commencing the delivery shot. How do we know loop straight behind us while sighting the fish in front of us? This is not an “elite” caster’s problem. This is the challenge posed in sight fishing tropical waters for fly fishermen every day.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

And good to know I don't qualify for your advanced level

And bollocks

[VGB]

How do we know loop straight behind us while sighting the fish in front of us? This is not an “elite” caster’s problem. This is the challenge posed in sight fishing tropical waters for fly fishermen every day.

You need to read the bit in the book on general motor control programmes in detail

[Paul Arden]

Looking forward to it.

[Stoatstail50]

Is this still a beginners section ? For people that want to get started ?

How do we know loop straight behind us while sighting the fish in front of us?

Good question, the answer is that you probably don't "know" but you're giving it a good guess based on prior experience.

I think we should start another thread on "pre-load", they were fun.

[Boisker]

View from a ‘non-expert & non-beginner’…

I can probably remember better than most of the highly accomplished expert casters on here what it actually ‘feels’ like as a beginner…. Relatively it’s not as long ago!

Definitely at the beginning feel is useless…. Unless we are referring to ‘feel the rod load’…. which I know most don’t like as a term…. Certainly at the beginning if you are casting to ‘feel’ the rod, I’d suggest you are massively overpowering the cast… I certainly was

All you have got for ages is your eyes, it is the only reliable way to interpret what is happening.

Slowly as improvements are made you can feel if the cast is a good one, I don’t think it’s feedback from the rod / hand though, more just an awareness that it feels right in that timing, body position, ‘muscle memory’ all contributes to the cast ‘feeling’ good.

As for being able to feel the loop with 97’ carry…. That’s one for the distant future

[Lasse Karlsson]

and we must allow the loop to fully unroll behind us before commencing the delivery shot. How do we know loop straight behind us while sighting the fish in front of us? This is not an “elite” caster’s problem. This is the challenge posed in sight fishing tropical waters for fly fishermen every day.

Cheers, Paul

Hardly any lets the loop fully unroll, most start way to early. There's nothing to "feel" and everyone benefits more from watching the line in front while counting, and then repeating the count behind for a starting point. Timing, having a similar pause between strokes.
Feel often belongs with rodload, in the trashcan.

I wonder what problem sight fishers all over the world has as a problem when they aren't in tropical waters
I know I am not feeling for the line unrolling when I have a second to present to the cruising GT in the surf on the reef. My mind is concentrating on alot of other things, and I'm letting my subconcious take over the casting.
And thats the same when I'm casting to a cruising seatrout in the cold scandi waters.

Cheers
Lasse