The Board

Well it’s also entitled learning syllabus - certifications. I certainly wouldn’t recommend that for beginners. More like loop control drills, roll cast both shoulders and shooting line/checking the shoot.

Basically all of this up to and including the double haul plus loop control drills video. Plus all planes, varying loop size and speed. I’ll shoot that video this week.

https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/introduction/

Cheers, Paul

It remains the case that one of the key reasons people have problems with BC loops when they’re not looking is that they never learned to form them when they were.

In fact I would suggest most recreational casters have never looked at all. That’s usually because they have taught themselves to copy vids or demo casts showing expert casters not looking….so that where they start. Alternatively they’ve been to an instructor who subscribes to the face the target, up down, “looking causes a tracking error” theory of teaching BC loop control. You can see examples of this all over the internet…with the barrage balloon BC loops to go with it.

I genuinely don’t understand why this kind of teaching persists because it’s demonstrably unsuccessful. In fact, when it’s directed at beginners or relative novices this is instructional nutcasery and it’s largely because of all this guff on YouTube and elsewhere, that new or novice casters are often so difficult to persuade to look…or so quick to turn back closed.

Totally agree Mark. How many hours training do you think they need to spend watching and shaping their backcasts?

Cheers, Paul

Before they don’t need to look anymore….? I have no idea

My warm up when I practice is basically the same drills I would use in beginner lesson. I still practice looking at my BC and I have no reason to believe anyone starting out shouldn’t develop and maintain that habit going forward.

And I frequently don’t look when I fish.

I look during practice, especially on long carries or when sh*t is happening and I need to figure it out. I will also look when there are lots of snag hazards behind me and it’s important to be accurate with my fly placement. Learning a new skill and when anybody is improving general motor ability requires specific feedback.

Many of the demo casts and tuition sessions on YouTube are demonstrating performance not learning.

Regards

Vince

During my usual play sessions I spend more than half of the time working on my left hand casting. And more than half of that, I spend looking at my left hand back cast.

I openly admit to being a slow learner, but I have been working on my left hand for years now... and by far, the cast that needs the most improvement is that back cast.

Looking at it is disheartening, but the only way I can imagine improving it!

As to teaching... I'm always encouraging my students to look! It may be "look at your loop" or "look at your hand" and yes... "look at your backcast" is a very common plea!

This is what I do, for right or wrong. I expect that they need to watch and figure out their backcasts for 10-20 hrs. This is very important. And I agree that moving forwards there are always going to be times when they need to be able to watch and develop their backcasts. This is a regular part of training, at all levels.

Later on I want to teach them to cast not watching their backcast and to use visual cues from the front cast. I also want them to be able to deliver on a backcast without watching their forward cast. By this point however we are not discussing beginners any more.

Cheers, Paul

I think this beginner has already left the building .... Cars fixed and I'm off fishing.

But as a parting shot.

Feel - I've never suggested that this is taught, indeed I have no idea how you'd do that in casting. But it is the end goal I think. Watching loops confirms if the cast was as intended. So the next cast I'd try and reproduce the feeling that made it and therefore the outcome, again confirmed or denied by the result.
Also a definition of feel is needed. For me it encompasses lots of things. How the rod feels in my hand and how the timing works amongst others. It's even a state of mind.
Btw letting me try the Opti loop line was probably counter productive. That definitely reinforced the idea of loading a rod etc Interestingly also felt the best to me.

Skiing: Bad example I think. I agree with Paul, skiing is all about feel. Right from the first lesson your are told to feel the pressures in your feet and shins. The majority of learning is then refining those initial on/off feelings to subtler ones ... feeling the edge, the snow, the slope etc.
Skiing blind, as in a white out, is very good. It lets you concentrate on the feel without the distraction of sight - which often induces fear which in turn destroys what ability you had. You do need to be mindful of trees, signs and other skiers though.

Talk of 90' carries are meaningless when i can't cast 50' even on a good day. I am still trying to understand all the moving parts and if they should even be moving! Wrist, elbow, shoulder etc.etc Also when a triangle is not a triangle and now when a circle is not a circle! ( )

Anyway the fish beckon now

OK.

Did you cast better with the Opti Alan ?

You are reverting into engrained behaviour at every opportunity, I’ll let you take the Opti line into the overhang next time Alan, and see if you “feel” the same way about it

Tight lines, the rivers, path’s and roads around here are distinctively chocolate coloured at the moment.

Regards

Vince