Old way, new way.

[Paul Arden]

Reading between the lines Bernd, I agree with you that’s it’s very difficult to get in-person training for twelve lessons. I’ve never had it. Consequently I have nothing to compare against because single lessons and one day clinics, which I’ve had numerous times, simply don’t compare.

It would be very interesting to compare like for like. From your comments I can tell you’ve never tried Zoom coaching. I give CCI pre-tests which should tell you how much I can see when I want to. It’s not YouTube.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

Hi Bernd

There’s a significant point of difference between on line and face to face teaching the same material 1 to 1, when compared to 1 to many, there is also a significant difference between teaching academic and movement skills in how you engage your students. Also as your musician study mentioned, the student requires higher skill levels to engage in online teaching.

I think that there is little read across between that Covid study, to what Paul is doing. I think that your musicians article presented a balanced review of on line teaching but it wouldn’t work for me with most students but I have done video reviews with longer term students that has proven to be a a very time efficient means of monitoring performance change over time.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

I do think many Cis would struggle to coach via video conferencing without training and in-field experience. We often hear the 6 steps, and while it’s a good place to start, seeing loops and intricate body movements simultaneously is a problem via Zoom. You can see one or the other but not both. At least not without a much larger monitor!

Given the choice between these two I’ll normally go for body movement. Now this possibly is where my coaching competition casters helps immensely. I’m a strong believer that the 3Ps in one package or another, particularly when coaching higher level casters. Of course these guys can already see and analyse their own loops.

Raw beginners on the other hand, can be done but definitely requires support eg downloadable content (of which there are libraries on Sexyloops). I’m not really focused on this student level on the whole. They come in sometimes and I take them on because I want to explore and build a structured course for beginners too. But my main focus is for casters who have hit a plateau in their skills development.

That said, for better or worse, having a beginners’ programme is important. Developing the drills and material for such an online environment I see as necessary. And quite frankly most instructors make a bit of a hash of this and many are not open to change.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd Ziesche]

Reading between the lines Bernd, I agree with you that’s it’s very difficult to get in-person training for twelve lessons. I’ve never had it. Consequently I have nothing to compare against because single lessons and one day clinics, which I’ve had numerous times, simply don’t compare.

Hi Paul,
So you are one of those believing it to be impossible to compare apples with oranges. For me instead it's very simple to compare these two.
I give a 5 to 6h beginner lesson for 120GBP. That's 2 hours with you online.
We can compare results on this same invest. Very clear to me, which is more effective.
Stay corrected though, I tried Zoom, Whatsapp, Facebook and video exchange for teaching. Watching the details of line movement in 2d on a small screen is significant less precise and effective compared to 3d real world teaching. That is for both sides. It also is much more time consuming via filming/screening.
Yet learning by watching is a HUGE tool!
There is no way you'll ever convince me that I can't see a line in the air much better in real live compared to the avg. screening.

I have done teaching over a high number of lessons several times. One student I trained over a 2 year period. He came for about 30 lessons. In the end he joined me in the WC and beat me about 1m. Perfect result.

Then I trained 2 of my exgfs. One passed the CI in the end and the other one was close to beat me in trout distance. She also came third in a mixed tournanent.

Some CI/MCI students came plenty of times until they passed the exam.

Then I had those fishing with me year by year who got bitten by the casting bug and entered 2 or 3 lessons for years.

I have quite some experience in one lesson compared to several lessons.

It would be very interesting to compare like for like. From your comments I can tell you’ve never tried Zoom coaching. I give CCI pre-tests which should tell you how much I can see when I want to. It’s not YouTube.

No it isn't, exactly. Creating YT vids means one has much more time to wait for perfect light, edit and a lot more!
If you trying to convince me, that you can't see any loops best in real live in 3d compared to 2d small screening...
Then I am out of this discussion.
Waste of time for me.

By the way it was me claiming that watching the caster not the loops is a great tool in teaching. It was quite some of you guys here telling me, that watching the loops is best and more important.
So there you go....
Now all of a sudden it's "if I have to".....

Cheers
B

[Paul Arden]

Is your 5-6 hr lesson 1-1?

[Bernd Ziesche]

Some yes, some no. I did everything from 1 - 1 to 1 - 15.

[Paul Arden]

And do you notice a difference?

[Paul Arden]

Anyway yes, I think two one-hour lessons, given fresh, with 8-10hrs of training in-between, with a recording of each session, will take a student further along than one x 6hrs lesson, no matter if that is given 1-1 or 1-15. There is only so much information that can be remembered in one sitting and skills take significantly longer to embed than you think.

So in this regards it’s better value for money. But I would never sell a two-lesson “course”.

I had four swimming lessons last year in KL. One month apart for each, also with video analysis. Do you really think I would have performed better after a 6 hr swimming day compared to a 4 month course of 4x1hr sessions, with daily swimming practise, training set drills in-between?

I don’t believe you can take someone further forwards in two hours than you can in one. At least not if you’re an experienced coach. Their brains are overloaded and their legs are tired. It sounds like torture to me! The important stuff is what happens after and between lessons.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

I have done teaching over a high number of lessons several times. One student I trained over a 2 year period. He came for about 30 lessons. In the end he joined me in the WC and beat me about 1m. Perfect result.


Cheers
B

Wasn't it 2 meters? And bottom of the field?

And Paul was schooling us in watching caster over loops before you found SL

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Movement is what we teach.