Stop and SLP discussion

[Paul Arden]

Following on from the other thread, Nils suggested we have a separate discussion about the Stop and SLP with regards to teaching, particularly since we both agreed that we generally try to avoid these terms when teaching most students.

So let me kick it off by talking about the Stop. I think that the Stop has really come from the idea that the rod bends during the casting stroke and we need (or should) stop it for it to unload.

But I don’t think that’s actually what is happening when we “stop”. If you study the hand “stopping” closely, you don’t actually see a stop, instead what you often see is an acceleration! When we “stop harder”, or “Squeeze stop”, what we are really doing is accelerating more, and I think this is the part that matters and not the cessation of the movement that can follow.

So if they stop is a rapid acceleration then we can focus more on the acceleration itself and maintaining smooth technique. It gives us an area of movement that we can isolate to explore.

It leads us into Joan’s Powersnap, Lefty’s SUAS, the Micro-second wrist, John’s flailing and squeezing into the heel of the hand for accuracy. The Hit, Stopless, Pull-back and Torque Twist.

Basically instead of thinking about stopping I think we are better served discussing acceleration.

I’m not sure if that’s what you were thinking Nils!

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

I don’t talk about the stop because of associations with the power snap, punching and tailing. Additionally, it tends to lead to a shortened stroke, when I’m trying to get students to extend their range of movement.

So if they stop is a rapid acceleration then we can focus more on the acceleration itself and maintaining smooth technique.

I don’t see the stop as a rapid acceleration, more of a deviation from the intended direction of the cast.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

If you hold the rod in your hand and squeeze it tight it rotates forwards. The faster you squeeze, the faster it moves. On the backcast that same movement creates pull-back.

In the forward cast I think that’s why instructors see results, not because the stop was sudden but because there was a late acceleration. I agree it can cause problems!

Likewise I don’t go into this with beginners.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

I would suggest that the direction of the acceleration relative to the intended direction of the cast is just as important as the acceleration itself.

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

It is and I also think the nature of the acceleration is key too. It doesn’t have to be abrupt as in a squeeze stop, and is better if it’s unpacked so that it can be trained to be smooth.

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

I'll just leave this here ...

(Yeah, I know they spelt it wrong, but that's memes for ya ...)

[VGB]

We don’t have gas, breaks or trunks

[Graeme H]

We don’t have gas, breaks or trunks

Yeah, I know. They not only spell things wrongly but call them the wrong names.

But they are all accelerators: that much we can agree on.

[VGB]

Can’t be an accelerator, it’s in the wrong place

And it’s an Alfa, so it’s probably broken

[George C]

I don’t see the stop as a rapid acceleration, more of a deviation from the intended direction of the cast.

Vince

I think so as well, Vince.
It is the point where application of positive torque crosses from being productive to counter productive. Thereafter application of torque in an opposite direction is helpful unless the line is released. Until that moment is reached, acceleration is beneficial at adding momentum along a SLP towards the target. Thereafter it is adding unhelpful momentum away from the target.
Or so it seems to me.

I should add that continuation of some diminished positive torque past the point of deviation from intended trajectory may still be beneficial for controlling loop size.

George.