Stop and SLP discussion

[Paul Arden]

Another implication is you might consider recording the lesson. Particularly if you have students coming back again.

For those interested in doing this, I think it’s very easy to do in the field. Most of the equipment that’s required people already have. It adds only a minute or two to the lesson but it completely frees you up to go wild. And it allows you to check yourself afterwards. That has value in it for everyone. But the greatest value is to the student.

Cheers, Paul

[VGB]

I considered wearing a go pro myself Paul, to see what I was paying attention to in my lessons.

[Bernd Ziesche]

I’ve just been out casting, using both hands, hauled and unhauled overhead casts. Can you tell me what I should have felt?

probably
In terms of fly casting I have no clue what you were aiming for. If I would know, I still could not know how you performed and thus can't have an idea about the typical feeling you most likely will have experienced.
You probably may have felt the resistance your rod and line provided based on what you did.
Then again, if you were focussing on watching your loops as an external source of information, you may not have noticed much or any feel.

[Paul Arden]

Hi Vince,

Over the years I’ve had a few students film lessons. The first was Jon Allen who brought his camcorder. I’ve often filmed parts. Now I would absolutely recommend filming the entire session.

I mentioned it before. You could use the Zoom app to film in-person lessons in the field. You can even set up two or more cameras from different angles, both wear headsets/earpods, and the entire session can be shared with your student very easily afterwards. He/she just downloads it at home. It takes a minute to set up.

Twice I’ve forgotten to record my lessons and that for me has been a disaster. It feels like I’ve wasted the lesson. I only know that now because of the series of training lessons I’ve been coaching and the comprehensive notes I get back from each student.

It is a very powerful and effective teaching tool, to have the student rewatch his entire lesson and take notes. I have quite a few students taking notes of their training sessions too, which I encourage. And since they have the technology, they also film themselves between lessons and can send these to me too. For example I got a video today from Graeme in New Zealand showing me a specific haul training drill that I set him last week.

There are benefits for me too with the note-taking in that I can check my content and how it’s been interpreted. But the main benefit is everything we say and teach can be unpacked later. Also of course they get to see themselves cast, which I think tremendously beneficial.

It really has changed how I approach a lesson. I am acutely aware how little information is retained or remembered after a lesson. I used to always (and still do sometimes) ask the student to give a synopsis of the lesson at the end. And it will be a few key points and that’s all they will remember. To make the lesson meaningful as a coach I have to make sure that those really were the key points to take away.

But now, with recorded lessons, I am free to give as much information as I want, within reason, because it will be unpacked and explored fully over the next weeks. When questions arise they come via WhatsApp or with the lesson notes. That to me is teaching. I think the in-between lesson contact is very important. I WhatsApp all of my students separately once per week, or at least those who haven’t communicated with me over the previous days.

I know Mark had a go at recording a few lessons; I would really recommend persisting with it. The fact that it goes to a cloud server and can be downloaded by the student after the lesson, makes it extremely easy for us. I think for recordings you need a one paid Zoom account. It’s 15USD/month. There is enough free recording space for about 7 lessons, so I have them download ASAP!! If I’ve deleted them before they have had a chance to download they are stored as backup for 28 days and can be restored.

The modern world

Cheers, Paul

[Stoatstail50]

Bernd, I know, just as you do, that a caster is going to feel resistance. They’re going to feel it whether I ask them to focus on it or not.

The issue is, as amply demonstrated in your post, that we cannot simply and unambiguously objectivise it or communicate it in advance so that a student can use that information to independently assess whether what they felt during performance was the correct sensation.

If we use the example of self efficacy from Johns vid in the other thread we know that a little win, a confirmation of success, delivers a little dopamine shot in the brain which basically says “ neat…more please, do it again”. This produces a “feeling”, an emotional response, confidence rises and we get a more relaxed lesson out of it. Because I can’t objectivise the feel, others may be able to but I can’t, I have to use something more communicable as a means of confirming the win in order to get the neurotransmitter active. This is going to reinforce the “feel” without directly addressing it.

Further to this, if we’re teaching recreational anglers rather than competition casters, our endpoint is automatic autonomous responses to changes in the task or environment. If we focus on “feel” or internal cues we disrupt or retard the development and smooth performance of these autonomous responses. So, personally, I try to avoid using these things wherever I can.

[Stoatstail50]

Incidentally, this does not mean I wouldn’t consider using these things more if the motivations and objectives of the caster were directed more toward competitive performance and the casters experience allowed it. This is a quite different set of circumstances.

[Bernd Ziesche]

You could use the Zoom app to film in-person lessons in the field. You can even set up two or more cameras from different angles, both wear headsets/earpods, and the entire session can be shared with your student very easily afterwards. He/she just downloads it at home. It takes a minute to set up.

Hi Paul,
How about wind, rain, poor connection, some students getting nervous when being filmed, having more than one student, students moving around etc.?

Not as easy as you make it look like imo.
Cheers
B

[Bernd Ziesche]

The issue is, as amply demonstrated in your post, that we cannot simply and unambiguously objectivise it or communicate it in advance so that a student can use that information to independently assess whether what they felt during performance was the correct sensation.

Hi Mark,
I disagree. Hands on for 10 seconds and they have a proper idea about the different feeling for too sudden burst of force application and smooth force application.
Also many students do have an idea about the difference by their daily life experience anyway.
I also often dont have to demo a tight loop and a wide loop for my students to know what this is about.
The details of how one sees them or how one feels it remain individual anyway.
In my experience many students getting the sensation as you put it, when having just felt a smooth proper cast after always having overpowered for years. No need for me to put hands on.
Regards
Bernd

[Stoatstail50]

I know you disagree…that is very evident

I think I’ve explained what I do instead and how that is consistent with research on learning. I haven’t really got anything else to say I’m afraid.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Mark,
How would you teach a novice to apply a proper amount of force to his rod, when fighting fish in the end of a lesson on grass?
In my experience 99% of novices apply very little force without realising their force application to be that low.
Do you use sight, aural, feel or a mix?