Stop and SLP discussion

[Paul Arden]

I think smell is underrated.

[VGB]

There are some fishermen that put a peg on their nose, to increase their feel

[Lasse Karlsson]

I think smell is underrated.

You've spend too long without washing your socks dude....

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Vince,

You completely missed the point of the video Bernd.

I don't think so. Here's what those who made that video said:

Our mission is to lead the Paralympic Movement, oversee the delivery of the Paralympic Games and support members to enable Para athletes to achieve sporting excellence.

Jerome Avery inspires athletes and individuals impacted by disabilities to overcome adversity and see endless possibilities - both on and off of the track or field.

What I said::

So why shouldn't someone blind become a proper caster, too. Still he might surprise us all.

Exactly how I see it. Why telling disabled students what they can't do before the even have entered the lesson? I prefer to believe they can do more then I may expect. I don't understand my job in limiting their path by thinking about their limits. I feel precisely the opposite. My experience is, that disabeled students usually already have enough people telling them what they can't do anyway.

Oh, btw. many years ago, Lasse's wife Silja announced (in a forum) a 3h lesson on shooting head casting including to learn the double haul for beginners. Several experienced instructors claimed it to be ridiculous and impossible trying to teach a beginner the dh within the first 3 hours. I didn't jump into that, but send Silja a friendly email offering my similuar opinion, that this was expecting a lot or too much for a beginner.
I couldn't have been more wrong. I learnt my lesson from that my mistake.

That aside, you probably meant to say, that I did miss the point why you linked that video (which imo has nothing to do with what that video and the paralympics are about).
So this was the point you wanted to make:

A 100m straight line sprint is a highly repetitive, low variability task. However the best unsighted sprinter in the world still needs assistance with it because his proprioceptive sense is not accurate enough for him to complete the task without significant errors. Without the continuous feedback of his guide, he would wander out of his lane.

I still don't see the point in this, because my students don't aim to participate or even win the WC. They just want to enjoy fishing. I have zero doubt, that blind people can fly fish, too. Castingwise I am sure they would make some good casters, too. You could also link videos presenting ppl. in a wheelchair within their limits. And yes, they too won't win the WC in distance fly casting. But I have seen them learn to cast quickly and who knows one may become an outstanding accuracy caster.

If you were blindfolded and I gave you a rod and you had no idea how much line you were starting with, the outcome would be a complete cluster.

I have no clue why I would let anyone start to cast without teaching him to adjust line length first. Very easy task. If that's what you'd do, maybe I should look for someone supporting me in my needs (no offense intended). That imo would be to have me start with a proper length of line. No different with students who have sight. I tell them what line length to start with. And not just that, in a group lesson I need to be able to figure or know how much line everyone is casting from a distance. So I may put marks!

Compared to a 100m sprint, fly casting is a task that is subject to highly variable task and environmental effects.

Those students I had sitting in a wheelchair could not aim for 100m sprints, but they did just fine in fly casting.

My brain works best with the information by one sense, when other senses are blocked or slowed.

If that was true, evolution would have dumped the energy wasting baggage of the other sense.

I have a pretty different view on this. Just like fish, too we sometimes use one, sometimes a mix of several senses. But it is done for proper reason, that athletes (and by far not only athletes) at times shut down/block senses to support using the one, which matters most within a task. Of course this doesn't mean, that we don't have proper use for all senses in our lives.
Cheers
Bernd

[Bernd Ziesche]

The point being, still, that it is highly personal, totally subjective. I can't explain in any unambiguous, communicable way what it is that I "feel".

Mark,
You won't believe, mate but I am afraid, I have no clue why on earth green is and always was my favorite color. So what does that say about using sight in teaching?
Btw. do you ask students, if they can see colors, to make sure they at least see the world similuar to you?
I sure never thought of it and never asked!
Regards
B

[Bernd Ziesche]

I think smell is underrated.

Fly fishermen indeed comletely failed to study how fish use their sense of smell. Most also failed to at least learn this from other angler's knowledge.

[Stoatstail50]

So what does that say about using sight in teaching?

Nothing.

Btw. do you ask students, if they can see colors, to make sure they at least see the world similuar to you?

I don’t…but I would if they were painting my front door.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Nothing... exactly my point. No different for what you said about feel!

You and Vince have put in quite some effort about looking into other sports like golf, baseball when it comes to how to teach.

You may have a look into this:

Seems feel matters a lot to those golf experts.

[VGB]

Hi Vince,

You completely missed the point of the video Bernd.

I don't think so. Here's what those who made that video said:

You did Bernd

Here’s what David Brown said himself:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/31/spor ... index.html

He raced in 600 and 60-meter events with the track team at the Missouri School for the Blind in St. Louis – gripping a clothesline-like wire that ran alongside the track for assistance – and from there gradually transitioned to running with a guide.

“I was in very big denial of my sight, which is one thing, so there were times when I would run and I didn’t run with a guide because I thought I could see,” Brown says. He was diagnosed with Kawasaki disease at 15 months old, which resulted in glaucoma and ultimately losing his sight years later.

Brown continues: “I was able to see well enough to not necessarily stay in my lanes when I was racing, but I was able to see well enough to stay on the track.

Regards

Vince

[VGB]

Hi Bernd

So this was the point you wanted to make:

A 100m straight line sprint is a highly repetitive, low variability task. However the best unsighted sprinter in the world still needs assistance with it because his proprioceptive sense is not accurate enough for him to complete the task without significant errors. Without the continuous feedback of his guide, he would wander out of his lane.

I still don't see the point in this, because my students don't aim to participate or even win the WC. They just want to enjoy fishing.

The point is that fishing is a high variability task, almost diametrically opposed to 100m sprints. Do you think it’s easier to sit on a production line doing the same thing over and over again, or come up with a different solution when there’s a continually changing task and environment, like fishing?

I’m watching rugby. Is there any particular thing you want me to look at in the golf video?

Regards

Vince