The Board

Mine is one of Alejandro’s too.

Nils would like it because it’s very good for demonstrating why we don’t really match arc to bend in any conscious way to get a particular tip path

Hi,

of course you can cast with a broomstick and one FF school demos this regularly here at a fair. Usually the broomstick is short and with haul and translation you can still get OK loops. But for the same length it's less efficient, like e.g. Grunde and Tobias have shown. First because the line velocity will be smaller and second the tip path is curved. I've tried to approximate such a rigid rod with the middle part of a DHD - very difficult to shape proper loops without a haul and a "normal" stroke.

Greetings,
Torsten

Stoatstail50 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:23 pm Neat article Brian

Thanks! Like I said, it was fun. Some days I'm pretty sure that my whole reason for diving into this magazine thing was to have excuses to do stuff like that. It certainly isn't the money. Like one of my musician buddies says, "There are literally DOZENS of dollars to be made in this industry - annually!!"

Stoatstail50 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:23 pm I have a broomstick too, Lasse has a chopstick I think.

I definitely don't need to see Lasse's chopstick, but we did tack yarn to a drumstick awhile back and played with it in the house. Not as enlightening as the broomstick, but it's easier on the joints. My kid is obsessed with percussion, which led to this odd little experiment last summer where he tried to throw two rods in one hand using the "Burton Grip" adapted from four-mallet marimba technique....

FishNoGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:43 am
Thanks! Like I said, it was fun. Some days I'm pretty sure that my whole reason for diving into this magazine thing was to have excuses to do stuff like that.

I highly commend whittling your own rod to find out the effects of taper on outcome, it kept me busy during Covid lockdown and this winter is starting to look like a candidate for something else off the wall.

regards

Vince

Like one of my musician buddies says, "There are literally DOZENS of dollars to be made in this industry - annually!!"

FishNoGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:43 am

Stoatstail50 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:23 pm Neat article Brian

Thanks! Like I said, it was fun. Some days I'm pretty sure that my whole reason for diving into this magazine thing was to have excuses to do stuff like that. It certainly isn't the money. Like one of my musician buddies says, "There are literally DOZENS of dollars to be made in this industry - annually!!"

Stoatstail50 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:23 pm I have a broomstick too, Lasse has a chopstick I think.

I definitely don't need to see Lasse's chopstick, but we did tack yarn to a drumstick awhile back and played with it in the house. Not as enlightening as the broomstick, but it's easier on the joints. My kid is obsessed with percussion, which led to this odd little experiment last summer where he tried to throw two rods in one hand using the "Burton Grip" adapted from four-mallet marimba technique....

2024-01-17 21_37_06-Video in 20230520 BCT4AO Casting Tricks - Google Photos.png

Your kid is on to something, it can be an interesting excercise to look at what stiffness and action/taper really means, done it a few times myself









A bit curious about the "modern rods" in the article, whats the difference?

Old rod



And chopstick thats Peter Hayes, me I use a piece of a 8 piece travel rod, similar though. Mpr shootinghead and it a fun indoors game, only been thrown out of 3 hotels so far

And taking the tip of a 10 weight stiff rod and sticking a tiptop on it gives one something close to a broomstick, a friend mounted a woodem broomstick with eyes 20 years ago and used in his demos at fairs.
A bit on the heavy side



Cheers
Lasse

Not as enlightening as the broomstick, but it's easier on the joints.

Definitely

We get distracted from the real benefits of bendiness by the endless analysis of rod bend and how much linespeed it generates, or not. Number one for me is I don't have to stop it moving all at once. It's a nice soft landing.

Lasse Karlsson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:22 pm Your kid is on to something, it can be an interesting excercise to look at what stiffness and action/taper really means, done it a few times myself

I'd seen at least one of these before, but I can't remember which one. I told him about it last night, and I'll show him these. He seems keen to play around more with that and see what new tricks he can figure out. Apparently there's a percussion trick to hold THREE mallets in one hand....don't hold your breath for a three rod video, but he's going to play with it.

The "Unforgiven" thing was great. We're right there with ya, brother - more often than any of us would like to admit!

I'll admit that I'm quite jealous of your giant blue wall. That's the Koncerthuset in Ørestad, right? Very cool. We should all have access to a giant blue backdrop for our casting videos.

Lasse Karlsson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:22 pm A bit curious about the "modern rods" in the article, whats the difference?

Yeah, we put "modern" in quotation marks because I think it's mostly nonsense. Some people seem to enjoy talking dismissively about "those blasted modern rods" in the same way that they'll disparage "all those newfangled technological devices", ignoring completely the fact that every generation since we came down from the trees has dealt with new technologies, some of which are really quite nice. I do regularly hear the idea that "modern" rods have gotten stiffer / faster, and sure, maybe some have, but others haven't. I've got "old" RPL and TCR and XP rods made 20-40 years ago, and they're plenty stiff / fast even by "modern" standards. That 60-year old glass rod you've got doesn't look like a noodle. Some of the "modern" "fast glass" rods seem like wet spaghetti to me.

I think that's mostly just people talking the way some people often talk - generalities that don't mean much if you look at them closely. It's always amused me how somebody will say "the world is going to hell in a handbasket" when prompted by something they don't like but immediately flip to "there's never been a better time to be alive" two breaths later. Humans are weird. But I do eventually get tired of seeing the terms "modern rods" and "broomsticks" get tossed around on various social platforms without any nuance or explanation - that was part of what inspired this whole experiment, after all.

What's the SL consensus? Is there such a thing as "modern" rods? Have rods gotten stiffer / faster over the years?

I'll definitely grant that some rods have gotten lighter, and some "modern" materials - fibers, platelets, resins, nano-stuff, whatever - offer faster recovery and better dampening. Maybe a few have become more durable? But in terms of the tapers going from slow --> fast / soft --> stiff, I'm not sure I buy that. Curious to hear everybody's thoughts....and apologies for hijacking the SLP thread!

Lasse Karlsson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:22 pm And chopstick thats Peter Hayes, me I use a piece of a 8 piece travel rod, similar though. Mpr shootinghead and it a fun indoors game, only been thrown out of 3 hotels so far

Shocking, the lack of appreciation that some hotel managers have for innovation!

Hi Brian

He should definetly play with it, there's clips out there of me casting three rods at once to prove something about lineweights.
And Hywell Morgan did like 60 for a charity event, and does 8 in his demos, or used to do 8. Made me think about it 20 odd years ago when I saw it the first time.

Rods have gotten lighter, and that might feel stiffer. Yeah that old thing is quite stiff. What is most apparent is less tip wobble in newer rods. And yeah, seeing how little difference there is in bend in rods of very different action and stiffness makes one think. Sadly most choose to ignore it and keep on trucking the same old BS...

And you'll be hard pressed to get a SL consensus, they are far and few between

And yes, it's the Danish Radio's concert hall, nice bit of grass along the side, and sun's perfect after noon.

Cheers
Lasse

"Is there such a thing as "modern" rods? Have rods gotten stiffer / faster over the years?"

Yes. On average yes. In general, a bit.

In general the action moved up the rod until the end of the last century or the early 2000s. At the same time blanks (more than rods) certainly became lighter which I think encouraged faster actions. I have rods from the 60's 70's and 80s which for a given line rating are heavier, softer and the action is deeper.

Stiffer by design in my opinion. Carbon composites and layups sort of sets limits on how far they can bend - less bend means stiffer. At the same time we saw competing brands setting out their styles, most brands make a few rod types, we tend to dwell on the most extreme, lightest, stiffest, fastest pick two or more.

For a while, a few years, I was seeing rods getting lighter and faster. Then I had a spell where designers seemed to be playing with slightly deeper actions, that trend seems to have stopped. Comparing like rods the trend seem to have stopped getting lighter and faster - new materials and innovative layup and manufacturing and all the measures I can make suggest premium rods made today are damned near identical to rods made a decade or more ago - same weight stiffness and action. However the failure rate of rods made today seems lower. I'd say rod makers are more concerned with durability than innovating lightness, stiffness, action and the rest. I think that's about controlling liability in part but I do wonder if the real innovation is selling me 10 rods each with a special purpose where back in the day I might have two or three at most (e.g. dry fly, wet fly and salmon)

On this site the classic fishing rods used for distance tends to be, for example, a 9ft 5-weight - or a 9ft 10weight used to throw a 5 weight line Paul. In the real world rod design has been emphasising other rods - for example we had the confusing Switch trend - then Euro nymphing and associated fishing styles, which have bugger all to do with casting as such. I'd say fishing trends are towards longer rods and lighter fly lines.

Magnus