ICSF WC Flycasting Sweden 2024

[Bernd Ziesche]

I've told the Swedes that I'm not coming and why, maybe the rest of you should do the same.

Same here.

[NM]

Looks like we may have the green shoots of change; the peasants are revolting!

The ICSF do not have any protection with regards to the words 'world championship or world champion'. As such, any group can set up a WCs and, so long as it's supported within the eyes of those competing in casting sport, then it's just as valid as an ICSF title. Rather than a championship belt like boxing, perhaps we could have socks?

Lasse - yep, I'm up for virtuals.

Paul - have you had any feedback from any of the Swedish team? I wonder what their take on it is?

James,
Who do you want to revolt against? Is it:
• The few volunteers who are donating their time and effort to organize the tournaments so that we can have fun?
• The host association that are spending their human and financial resources on organizing the tournaments so that we caan have fun?
• Or our seriously underfunded international organization that does not have the human and financial resources to do all the nice things that we want to have happening, and just got a new Board with representation from the fly casting side of the sport?

The reality is that organizing large international tournament, and in particular a world championship, requires quite a bit of human and financial resources, and that irrespectively of whether it is an on-grass tournament like the traditional Castingsport WC or an on-water one. Yes, one can have the participants contributing with judging and lane changes, and yes some, but not all, may be willing to do so, but I am afraid that thar in practice would not be sufficient. Just ask Chris and Hendry how much work they personally had to do, and how many volunteers then needed, for the US Open—and they at the GGACC have the best permanent facilities in world for holding an on-water tournament—and yes, many of us took turns judging. Yes, the participation fee was higher than for the 2022 WC, but that’s because Norway covered all of the cost, which I believe they also have done for many, if not most, of the earlier WCs. I really hope that the US Casting Association, and GGACC, did cover their cost, and hopefully made a (small) surplus. That would be well deserved. We cannot continue having the host association covering most or all of the cost, if the sport is to survive and for someone to be willing to host the tournaments.

I know that the ICSF works to keep costs down. They raised concerns about the higher-than-usual participation fees for the 2024 WC during the 2023 ICSF General Assembly, as you can see from the minutes posted on the ICSF’s web site. And no, there’s been no ICSF proposal to charge a spectator fee as I understand it. That rumor, I believe is false.
The participation fees are determined by the host association, in this case the Swedish Casting Association. Yes, it is higher than the very low 2022 fee that may largely just have been for covering your lunch. I suspect that they will still be running a significant deficit, unless they get more government funding specifically for the tournament or more sponsor money than we did. if so, that would be well deserved.

Our core problem is lack of resources, human and financial. We need better funding and more volunteers at the local, national, and international level if we want to grow the sport and implement the many good proposals you all have made. It is easy to make proposals, but someone needs to have the time and resources to implement those proposals. The problem is not that the sport is getting too professional; it is that we are not professional enough. My local multi-sport neighborhood club for kids with its 25 permanent staff is more professional and may have more resources than all of the tournament casting sport (Fly casting + Castingsport) world wide. Fragmenting the sport further and creating separate international associations as it seems that some of you want will just increase cost and makes things worse. Trust me, we have been there, and it was a disaster. It took a lot of work in the 70s and early 80s to unify the sport.

For the sport to survive, and hopefully grow, we all need to make a big effort. We need more resources and better funding in order to strengthen:
• The local clubs
• The national associations
• Our international organization.

As John noted, the bread and butter of tournament casting is at the local and national level. With more activity locally, and better funded national associations, it would be possible to not only have the WC participation fees covered, but also parts or the bulk of the transportation and accommodation costs. We may then even have the resources needed to contribute more the much-needed international work, which again may help us getting more funding locally.
And yes, I know this is hard work and frustrating. I gave up my own tournament casting career back in the 80s to spend 10 years running tournaments, creating new on-water fly casting events, working on recruiting new clubs, and coaching new casters, just to get complaints from some of those casters that we did not do enough to support their hard work (having fun) practicing and competing.

I still hope to see you all in Sweden
Nils

[Paul Arden]

Hi Nils,

I think a couple of things have to happen. There needs to be a team of organised volunteers within the WC’s organisation whose job it is to promote the championships. That means press releases, website, social media, trying to find broadcasters and engaging with them. Communicating with teams to assist with their national promotions. I’d volunteer.

There also needs to be a team whose job it is to secure funding and prizes. That’s not very difficult. Many of us are connected within the fishing trade and have other professional contacts too. It shouldn’t be down to the hosting country to make all of this happen. There are about 120 of us competing and growing. I’d volunteer for this too!

I agree that it’s our fault for not having done this ten years ago. We made a mistake then. But I don’t think we have to live with that for the rest of our lives.

So I’m with James and Lee and Lasse and Bart and Sakari and Michael and everyone else who competes. It’s not just a team event and we are all in this together.

I can’t justify spending 8K to go and compete with my wife for 4 minutes. And I can’t justify 5K on my own either. Finding the travel costs and ways to justify it is one thing, but paying 950 Euros just to enter the 5WT distance event? First time in Norway it was 10 or 15 Euros. UK was £20. It doesn’t even begin to compute.

I want to see this work. I’ve put a lot of my time into this in different parts of the world. We need to really look now and find a better solution going forwards.

Thats what I think anyway. But I’m usually out on left field. I hope it goes well. I’m coaching casters who are going but I can’t be there myself

Cheers,
Paul

[Michal Duzynski]

Ok, everything getting more expensive and so on, but what is the story with 6 days?
Cost got higher because it is double amount of days, for venues, hotels, volunteers.
Is there double amount of casters expected?
I'm wondering, because by looks of it, we might expect a decrease instead of an increase of casters and intrest in the sport.

[Lasse Karlsson]

And no, there’s been no ICSF proposal to charge a spectator fee as I understand it. That rumor, I believe is false.

Nils

I think its the fellow traveller for 100 euros that get free entrance that leads to the obvious speculation of a spectator fee, otherwise, why would it be mentioned?

And yeah, we should all do more hard work than we have been doing the last couple of decades, with trying to make local clubs, national championships etc.
Honestly, done my time, not taking that poison again.

Good luck at the weekend and good luck in Sweden.

Cheers
Lasse

[NM]

Ok, everything getting more expensive and so on, but what is the story with 6 days?
Cost got higher because it is double amount of days, for venues, hotels, volunteers.
Is there double amount of casters expected?
I'm wondering, because by looks of it, we might expect a decrease instead of an increase of casters and intrest in the sport.

Not sure Michal, but there's 6 events and many of us will cast all. I would not travel all the way to say Australia for just one event. Would you? I would likely not have done it even if it was in Germany or the UK either. The mix and number of events is an important part of what’s make it fun. And the number of events helps reduce the wind lottery factor that we unfortunately cannot get rid of fully when casting outdoor with light floating lines—whether it is on grass or over water doesn’t matter that much—you may be unlucky in one event but lucky in another.

The cost for accommodation to me seem quite low. It is even lower than in 2022, and that one was also relatively low for the region—it would have been much more in 2022 if it had been in a major city instead of at an out-of-season ski resort.

[NM]

And no, there’s been no ICSF proposal to charge a spectator fee as I understand it. That rumor, I believe is false.

Nils

Screenshot_20240117_231256_Email.jpg

I think its the fellow traveller for 100 euros that get free entrance that leads to the obvious speculation of a spectator fee, otherwise, why would it be mentioned?

And yeah, we should all do more hard work than we have been doing the last couple of decades, with trying to make local clubs, national championships etc.
Honestly, done my time, not taking that poison again.

Good luck at the weekend and good luck in Sweden.

Cheers
Lasse

Lasse, I assume that the fellow traveler fee is mainly for the banquet and maybe some food etc. at the casting venue. And it is not something that the ICSF has proposed.

And yes, we have to do the work, all of us, and together. There’s nobody else.

[John Waters]

And no, there’s been no ICSF proposal to charge a spectator fee as I understand it. That rumor, I believe is false.

Nils

Screenshot_20240117_231256_Email.jpg

I think its the fellow traveller for 100 euros that get free entrance that leads to the obvious speculation of a spectator fee, otherwise, why would it be mentioned?

And yeah, we should all do more hard work than we have been doing the last couple of decades, with trying to make local clubs, national championships etc.
Honestly, done my time, not taking that poison again.

Good luck at the weekend and good luck in Sweden.

Cheers
Lasse

Hi Lasse,

That’s correct.

My wife accompanies me, and she does not cast. I’ve always paid a fee for her to cover her meals and attendance at the banquet.

John

[Michal Duzynski]

Ok, everything getting more expensive and so on, but what is the story with 6 days?
Cost got higher because it is double amount of days, for venues, hotels, volunteers.
Is there double amount of casters expected?
I'm wondering, because by looks of it, we might expect a decrease instead of an increase of casters and intrest in the sport.

Not sure Michal, but there's 6 events and many of us will cast all. I would not travel all the way to say Australia for just one event. Would you? I would likely not have done it even if it was in Germany or the UK either. The mix and number of events is an important part of what’s make it fun. And the number of events helps reduce the wind lottery factor that we unfortunately cannot get rid of fully when casting outdoor with light floating lines—whether it is on grass or over water doesn’t matter that much—you may be unlucky in one event but lucky in another.

The cost for accommodation to me seem quite low. It is even lower than in 2022, and that one was also relatively low for the region—it would have been much more in 2022 if it had been in a major city instead of at an out-of-season ski resort.

Exactly 6 events, and it was like this since being. I don't remember anyone complaining about not enough time.
My main events are TD, STD and Accuracy, I'm not interested in Salmon and 2 spey events.
If I'm in the finals, that is fine, but if not, I'm out after the first 2 days, but paid for 6.
In Cumbria there was 120 casters, but only 56 were in Trout Distance, not sure if this going to increase?

I would travel if there was a fat check for the winner

Cheers

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Lasse,

That’s correct.

My wife accompanies me, and she does not cast. I’ve always paid a fee for her to cover her meals and attendance at the banquet.

John

Hi John

And that's perfectly fine, but the invite mentions that it also gives free entrance. Why mention that, if its free for everyone?

Cheers
Lasse