Movement Skills Overview

[VGB]

Saying that all other instructors have less professional ways of teaching is your point of view. Quite a big statement, not very nice in my opinion. Most instructors you don't even know, nor have you seen them teaching. I also don't think you have seen Paul teaching via videocall.

I don’t recall marrying you Bernd, only my wife gets to tell me my view. Given that you have made a serious accusation, perhaps you would like to back that up with some evidence?

[VGB]

I set objectives for each exercise within the lesson, but current performance isn't just what I focus on. Understanding, the exercise to have clicked, is even more important.

How do you measure the understanding?

[Paul Arden]

Any alternative?

For me the 5Es is an instructor’s tool. It’s quite unnecessary to teach it before learning loop control. Of course they’ll learn each part as they train the drills but I don’t teach them the package first and never have. I start with Graeme’s waves and add a pause to go from waves to loops. I teach that they need to form a loop and create drills that allow them to explore this.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Saying that all other instructors have less professional ways of teaching is your point of view. Quite a big statement, not very nice in my opinion. Most instructors you don't even know, nor have you seen them teaching. I also don't think you have seen Paul teaching via videocall.

I don’t recall marrying you Bernd, only my wife gets to tell me my view. Given that you have made a serious accusation, perhaps you would like to back that up with some evidence?

Paul has publicly swallowed a lot of humble pie and set his courses up on a more professional basis than exists elsewhere

Vince, Paul has just started to teach via Zoom and in short sessions. Obviously that means a lot of restructuring the lessons compared to how he taught for decades before. Teaching in sets of short sessions face to face Paul said to yet have almost no experience and thus not much of a chance to compare with long sessions or to have improved in this new way to teach.
You saying his new way of teaching to already be more professional or more professional structured than anyone else has it, is a huge statement impov. If I understood you wrong in this, I apologize.
Regards
B

[Bernd Ziesche]

It’s quite unnecessary to teach it before learning loop control. Of course they’ll learn each part as they train the drills but I don’t teach them the package first

Well, so you teach all essentials within the first hour anyway by having them in your drills.
Are there essentials you "don't care of" when delivering the drill about shaping the desrired loops?
Seems like you add one here one there when going from drill to drill?

[Bernd Ziesche]

How do you measure the understanding?

The answers to some questions, watching the level of improved performance or the change in performance, as well as the transfer results tell me.

[John Waters]

IMHO the most effective coaches are those who are flexible in both their approach to instruction and how that learning transfers to performance by the person they are instructing. That flexibility encompasses what is taught, when it is taught, how it is taught and the acknowledgment of, to whom it is taught and applies to all sports, including fishing and casting.

Agree. Sounds like a massive amount of experience is needed to fit in here!?

Hi Bernd,

Yes, experience is an advantage, as long as it is still relevant to the lesson objective. If it is just a reflection of the number of years of activity, that may not reflect quality. Casting like all sports has three components, namely how the body moves, how the equipment is used and how the mind best activates both. All three are best instructed using a modular approach, such that the what and the how of instruction at one stage is the foundation of the what and how of the instruction in any subsequent stage. Cueing is the same when focusing on how the body moves, or should move. I've said in a previous thread that teaching proximal to distal movement patterning and sequencing, when the torso is rotated to any degree in the casting stroke instructed, is best achieved by employing a modular structure based on transitioning from internal to external cues. I sometimes, but rarely, use an internal cue for one aspect equipment use but all my other equipment use cueing is external.

The term "experience" may not always equate to "excellence",

John

[Stoatstail50]

Given that there may be differing objectives caster to caster John, it is possible and frequently quite desirable, to exploit movement patterns that already exist to drive a change in a pattern of behaviour or to be incorporated into a new one. Transfer of executive subroutines in the jargon I believe.

Bearing in mind that fly fishing is not what many casters would consider athletic endeavour, this reduces the need for internal focus. Should that be your objective of course.

[John Waters]

Hi Mark,

I agree, casters have different objectives and the instructor has choices as to what and how he/she will use to meet those objectives. It is often the measure of an instructor's skill set in their choice to exploit existing patterning or apply a new one. It is beneficial if the existing pattern will facilitate the learning of a more complex pattern, or indeed a new one in order to achieve a modified or different objective.

I agree that many casters would not consider fly fishing an athletic endeavour. However, when either a shock or repetitive injury to the wrist, elbow or shoulder occurs, that view may warrant reconsideration. Kuhn and Kuhn (2020) surveyed 162 recreational fly fishers, living in the United States, about any pain they experienced whilst or after fly fishing. The authors found 36.4% of respondents reported experiencing upper extremity pain immediately after fly fishing, ranging from periods of less than one day and up to a week after their fly fishing outing. None were associated with long term disability.

I found it interesting that the authors mentioned an elliptical or side-arm casting technique in their findings. I suspect most of those anglers using that technique used torso rotation to some degree in their stroke. If they did not, maybe they should have. Both the instruction and application of an initial internal focus on how best to capitalise on torso movement, which then transitions to an external focus, may assist in better casting performance and less negative impact on the angler's shoulder, elbow and wrist.

John

[Paul Arden]

Well, so you teach all essentials within the first hour anyway by having them in your drills.
Are there essentials you "don't care of" when delivering the drill about shaping the desrired loops?
Seems like you add one here one there when going from drill to drill?

No I gave the wrong impression here. Pausing and casting arc will come up. Tip path too. I’m not teaching or focussing at all on the 5Es however; I’ve never taught them to beginners and find it unnecessary. I’ve watched lots of classes where they have been taught to beginners. I personally think it’s better not to teach them.

I don’t consider an hour to be a short lesson. Short lessons would be 15 minutes. I’ve certainly given many of those at Gamefairs and other events over the years. I spent the first half of my coaching life giving 2hr lessons, then I moved to 90 minutes and nowadays approx one hour (my one to one in-person lessons are also one hour duration).

What has been unusual however for me is to sell 12 lesson packages. The only longer term coaching I’ve had prior to this has been competitive casting coaching through Sexyloops, instructor training and repeat guiding clients. Up until 4 years ago it was unusual for me to give more than 2 or 3 lessons to an individual. Now it’s unusual not to get more than 12. That has made a huge difference and has enabled me to structure my classes and deliver more content. There is a lot more variety in my coaching nowadays that’s for sure. Which is good because giving the same lesson again and again is pretty uninteresting after a while.

Cheers, Paul