Hauling - pulling fly line through the guides

[Walter]

Gordy,

Distance is a scalar measure of the interval between two locations measured along the actual path connecting them. Displacement is a vector measure of the interval between two locations measured along the shortest path connecting them.

While the instantaneous magnitude of speed and velocity (derivative of the change in distance vs the derivative of the change in displacement) may be the same whenever the actual path and shortest path between two locations is the same, velocity will have individually separable components depending on the chosen coordinate system.

[Lou Bruno]

Hi Lou,

It’s more important that Lin moves through the guides as the hand separate, but if the hands are separating and line is not moving through the guides, it’s because the hand movement is working to open that angle.

But yes, in the end, it’s where the hands have finished. Displacement is a vector, and if the component of the vector along the rod butt axis is insufficient, the haul is less effective than it could be.

Cheers, Graeme

Graeme

Let's say at the end of my cast while hauling I add two movements: extend my arm and lift the rod closer towards the fly leg. Theoretically, its possible to NOT pull line into the guides, hence the haul stops? So my haul should stop prior to making any of those arm movements!
As an instructor what would they be watching, to determine if the haul timing was off?

Lou

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Lou

Looking away from that you wouldn’t have a flyleg before you have let the line overtake the rodtip. If you stop hauling before the rodtip will go down instead of up, you will have the makings of a tail in your cast, and thats what an instructor would be looking for, as well as the weird movements one has to do to not get line in through the guides as one is extending the rodarm as well as lifting it. Your hauling would have to do the same

Cheers
Lasse

[Graeme H]

Displacement is a vector,

Graeme,
What do you mean by displacement?

I would think that the distance between the first stripper guide and the haul hand would be a scalar, and thus its derivative would give a haul speed not an x or y haul velocity.

Gordy

Hi Gordy,

I trust Walter's answer was sufficient but if you still don't follow, let me know.

Cheers,
Graeme

[gordonjudd]

Distance is a scalar measure of the interval between two locations measured along the actual path connecting them. Displacement is a vector measure of the interval between two locations measured along the shortest path connecting them.

Walter,
Thanks for those definitions.

In regards to measuring the separation between the stripper guide and the haul hand its affect on the speed of the line through guides it seems to me this is a distinction with no difference.

Gordy

[Walter]

Gordy,

It’s the same distinction as between speed and velocity. The issue here is the path of the hauling hand relative to the stripper guide.

As an example, if my hauling hand is located 2 feet from the stripper guide and next to my rod hand and I make a straight line 2 foot haul directly in line with the rod I will pull 2 feet of line through the guides. If my haul is at right angles to the rod I will pull roughly .8 feet of line through the guides. If my hauling hand movement took 0.1 seconds I have increased line speed by 20fps in one case and 8 fps in the other even though my hauling hand speed was 20fps in both cases.

Add the fact that the path of the hauling hand may include rotational as well as translational elements and the relationship between distance and displacement of the haul gets complicated.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Gordy,

As an example, if my hauling hand is located 2 feet from the stripper guide and next to my rod hand and I make a straight line 2 foot haul directly in line with the rod I will pull 2 feet of line through the guides. If my haul is at right angles to the rod I will pull roughly .8 feet of line through the guides. If my hauling hand movement took 0.1 seconds I have increased line speed by 20fps in one case and 8 fps in the other even though my hauling hand speed was 20fps in both cases.

Walter,

Thanks for that!

I had to think about it for a second, but I get it now.

It's very triggy!

[Paul Arden]

For that reason I think you want to end up finishing the haul at 180 degrees to the rod butt. However trying to haul in line with the rod rotation will mean curving the hauling hand path upwards on the backcast… I shall give it a go! I’m not too happy on the forward cast, because it means starting from a reached forward line hand position which is not chicken wing, but I shall give that a go too!

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

For that reason I think you want to end up finishing the haul at 180 degrees to the rod butt. However trying to haul in line with the rod rotation will mean curving the hauling hand path upwards on the backcast… I shall give it a go! I’m not too happy on the forward cast, because it means starting from a reached forward line hand position which is not chicken wing, but I shall give that a go too!

Cheers, Paul

I don't think you need to change things there Paul. It's already working for you and I don't think the actual path matters as much as the finishing position. There may be some very small variations in line velocity during the haul if the path is not 180° from the rod but, but the total distance divided by the total time provides that line velocity for the haul period.

My experience with some students is that they finish their haul with the hand out from the rod (as described by Walter above.) That's not efficient. In the worst cases, they are not hauling any line at all.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

I agree with that Graeme. You often see the haul finishing by the side, or the arm not fully straightened. I built my haul around how I could move my hand quickest. I don’t know if curving the path would be quicker, or if slower then maybe the haul separation is quicker. Stuff to play with.

Cheers, Paul