glass vs graphite

[Phil Blackmar]

Rodmaterial says nothing about a rods action or stiffness, recovery rate is marketing BS. A heavier line doesn't change a rods action or stiffness. Minds do play tricks on people, especially fishermen minds.

Cheers
Lasse

Lasse-

I'm not sure what to take from the videos. You once sent me a video of you casting with 5 different styles or timing.

The comment about rod material is interesting. Many years ago, the Taylor Made company was experimenting with different shaft designs. As a test, they had a group of PGA TOUR players attempt to describe the relative flex and flex point of several shafts. The players, including myself, failed terribly to get it right because the manufacturer had moved the weight distribution around in the shaft giving them each a different feel which masked the flex characteristics of the shaft

While a heavier line may not change the action or stiffness of a rod, a rubber chicken will certainly bend a rod more than a piece of yarn cast the same distance.There is no doubt you are correct about minds playing tricks just like feels aren't real. But, sometimes those tricks and feels can be put to good use.

[Phil Blackmar]

Let me try this again.

Does an 8 wt carbon fiber rod bend less than a modern fiberglass rod cast the same distance with the same line, fly and loop? If the answer is yes, does this create a change in feel or benefit a certain style over others which could be useful for certain types of fishing, teaching situations or training programs?

For example, moving from a braced stop to a stopless can be challenging for some people. Could a glass rod make learning such a transition easier?

Just wondering.

Thank you
Phil

[Lasse Karlsson]

Rubber chickens....



Will it bend the rod more than a piece of fluff weighing the same?

Take away from the clips I posted is that soft and stiff do not require the caster to do anything different. The difference between the two rods posted is greater than what the average caster will use, and claim huge differences on.

Yeah, I posted that old clip with 5 different casting techniques, to show the point back then that claiming that an individuals "casting style" was wrong for this and that was a red herring. Just like focusing on rod bend is.

Feels are very real, just very hard to explain to others, haven't met a single flyfisher capable so far, and I've asked a few in the last couple of decades.

And yeah tricks can be put to good use, rarely are though...

Cheers
Lasse

[Phil Blackmar]

Take away from the clips I posted is that soft and stiff do not require the caster to do anything different.

Cheers
Lasse

Yet, you helped me a great deal with casting the 10 wt I own. It is very stiff and I was struggling and you suggested "less arc". The move to more stroke and less arc really helped and subsequently opened the door to better understanding how to adjust and make the cast with more arc.

Thank you again for that.

Phil

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Does an 8 wt carbon fiber rod bend less than a modern fiberglass rod cast the same distance with the same line, fly and loop?

Phil

Phil,

You did not ask me but I'll pitch in my 0.02 anyway...

To that question I would answer generally "yes", but I think it goes beyond materials. CF rods can be produced that bend more, just like FG rods can be made stiff. I think it has a lot to do with what is very popular these days - which are CF rods that tend to be on the stiff side.

One of the more insightful ideas I picked up here on SL was that the rod transfers energy into the line through three mechanisms: swing, spring, and whip. (Damn I sure hope I got that right!)

I interpret "swing" to be like leverage, while "spring" is unloading, and "whip" comes from the mass near the top. (Again, ask the experts for more on this as I am almost making this up as I go!) I have not tried to put it into my words as of yet.

What I think I find in modern "fast" CF rods is an emphasis on "swing" or leverage. What I like about FG rods (and a few unpopular CF rods) is a much larger emphasis on "spring" and "whip". I think FG rods, being of a heavier material, get even more into the "whip" zone.

So, yes, generally, FG rods will bend more. It is probably how and what they were designed to do.

I think that is what I feel anyway?

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Phil

You're welcome, but that had more to do with what the mind plays of tricks on us, than that the rod was stiff

You question of bend and material leads straight back to what I wrote earlier, material doesn't say anything about stiffness. Just like the "8wt" doesn't say much either. I have 7 or 8 carbon rods in the garage that has the number above the handle, and they have very different amount of stiffness. Stiffest rod that said 5 above the handle I have cast, was a bamboo rod, damn poker.

Glasfiber generally is heavier than a comparable carbon stick, most also have a softer action than the carbon counterparts, so there's more feedback in counterflex. Some like that, some hate that. It can be used as a tool in teaching, all depends on the teacher and the what they want to show/teach. Mostly I have seen it used to convex that softer is prone to cause tails, and stiff is prone to cause open loops. Another reason for the soft stiff clips I have made, but people mostly don't believe them

Cheers
Lasse

[Graeme H]

Hi Phil,

I think a glass rod with an 8 label will often bend more than a CF rod with an 8 label, but some of that is the expectation of the buyers being met by the makers.

For some reason, many of the commercial rod makers like to make very bendy ‘glass rods because we want the “traditional ‘glass feel”

They don’t need to be sloppy and lifeless. If built to be a faster action (stiffer butt) glass rods can be much more fun. I had a few blanks custom built and I really enjoy fishing with them. They feel nothing like the glass rods sold by most makers.

Remember, there is not a rod standard. The label can have any number written on it.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi Phil,

I think a glass rod with an 8 label will often bend more than a CF rod with an 8 label, but some of that is the expectation of the buyers being met by the makers.

For some reason, many of the commercial rod makers like to make very bendy ‘glass rods because we want the “traditional ‘glass feel”

They don’t need to be sloppy and lifeless. If built to be a faster action (stiffer butt) glass rods can be much more fun. I had a few blanks custom built and I really enjoy fishing with them. They feel nothing like the glass rods sold by most makers.

Remember, there is not a rod standard. The label can have any number written on it.

Cheers,
Graeme

Can you share with me the FG blanks you like? The CTS I just bought was a custom build.

Thank you
Phil

[Paul Arden]

I love my (many) glass rods but I’m not going to give up the carbon fibre ones. Horses for courses.

PS - as a geologist, I strongly object to the implication that graphite has any place in a fly rod. It’s a truly amazing mineral, but it’s not noted for its tensile strength. Carbon fibre, on the other hand, is a very useful isomer of carbon in a structural setting.

I stand corrected Graeme, thank you. My father was a geologist and had an impressive mineral and crystal collection but his true love was Mexican agates. Here are a couple examples. rocks med 79.jpegrock med 40.jpeg

Thanks
Phil

Rock porn.

[Carol]

Geology IS a real science. I worked for a Mensa geologist at USGS. Masters in math and PhD in Geology from Stanford. Brilliant statistician and just as odd as Sheldon Cooper. Also knew a PhD geophysist (from U.C. Berkeley). Also brilliant, but not as odd. I was not so smart, but definiately a bit odd.