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Hi Malik

Just checked the "anatomy of a thrust" video. Well, if you watch from 40 sec to around 50 sec it looks to me like very minimal - even delayed - rotation at the start of the forward stroke. Difficult to tell from that camera angle though. It certainly doesn't look like early rotation.

The thrust seems to come after rotation.

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see.

W.

Hi Will

According to me, in the movie (I'm the caster) the beginning of the thrust, which is the moment of the MPA, comes with the end of the rotation, not after (at least it is what I try to make , a kind of "rototranslation"). For an effective thrust and to have after it a sufficient space for a directional follow through of the loop, the elbow has to be still as close as possible to the body at the time of the end of the rotation and the beginning of the thrust. That is why I speak about "anticipated" rotation, maybe wrongly.

Cheers

Malik

OK, I think we're maybe talking about different things Malik. Your video shows me that you can delay rotation and still have room left for a thrust movement.

A case of having your cake and eating it!

W.

Will wrote: A case of having your cake and eating it!
W.

Maybe what is "delayed" for you is "anticipated" for me : the essential is, after all, to agree about the... appropriate timing

Bye and thanks for the discussion, Will

Malik

salut Malik !
just as Will, what i see is what most would consider a 'delayed' or better yet, 'rotation towards the end of the stroke'. a sign of good casting
what i'm having a hard time understanding is your word choice of 'Anticipating' the rotation. given that it has the same meaning in french or in english. are you translating from some other weird language ?
1 regard as probable; expect or predict:
• guess or be aware of (what will happen) and take action in order to be prepared:
• look forward to: Stephen was eagerly anticipating the break from the routine of business.
2 act as a forerunner or precursor of:
• come or take place before (an event or process expected or scheduled for a later time).
(i know. i'm always pulling out a dictionary... )
which makes me think you might be considering the post-stop and rotation thrust as being part of the casting stroke.
is that correct ?

cheers,
marc

ps- i just noticed something quite interesting regarding your grip on the BC but that will be for another thread

Hi Marc,
No, no hidden sense with "anticipated", "delayed" or "late", but simply another instructor's history. I see better what you and Will call late rotation. In the italian-style context, I just think that the type of rotation and MPA I make on the movie would be qualified of "anticipated". In fact, it is very useful for my instruction to see how instructors how are coming from another style than mine see this kind of stuff.
For the rest : yes, to me the "rotation-thrust" (good formula ) is a part of the casting stroke, but the follow-through which follows the thrust after stop (here, "stop"= sharp deceleration just after the MPA on the thrust) is not a part of the CS as it is a kind of drift where almost no force is applied.
Bye !
Malik

Marc, Will,
In fact, we end the rotation with a short thrust at the end of the casting stroke, and it is probably why, in this style, (for the basic cast) it can make sense to consider that the rotation is "anticipated" ("anticipated" in the sense 2:

come or take place before (an event or process expected or scheduled for a later time).

Bye and thank's
Malik

I think we all see something different It seems to me that duration of the rotation is more important than when it occurs

Malik

Where in Switzerland are you based, I'm near Lausanne most years visiting my wifes family.

regards

Vince

Hi Vince

Or maybe we see all the same thing, but from a different perspective ?

Best Regards

Malik

I live in Bern, but I'm working in Lausanne. I have sent you a MP with my address and phone number.

Thanks Malik, PM replied ro