Arm Path

[John Waters]

Great observations George.

"What I am also asking myself is how does that dip contribute to a successful cast. Helping to maintain a SLP seems likely the major factor but I wonder if there may be something else going on here.......namely, does the dip itself help to transfer additional kinetic energy from the body system through the rod to the line."

I think the outcome is marginal at best George. At that stage, the body input has expired fully, the right arm has begun to extend so the forearm rotation is nearing expiry and the elbow is straightening. Thus the only segment available to impact trajectory and speed is the wrist and that is the weakest segment in the total body chain. The dip is a result of our wish to strengthen that weak wrist turnover by using what is left of the elbow straightening movement and that is best achieved by a push up of the hand whilst the elbow extends fully, coinciding with the wrist snap.

"It strikes me that a downward motion of the rod butt between MCL and RSL might accelerate the transfer of energy from the butt of the rod, through the tip and into the line.........much the same way that pulling back on the rod leg of the fly line accelerates the fly leg of the line. Although made of very different material, might the bent rod be acting like a loop where an increase in tension of the stretched graphite fibers accelerates the turn over (i.e., straightening ) thereby increasing tip speed which in turn is imparted to the rod?"

The rod will react anyway, the faster the hand moves during wrist rotation the greater the distance achieved. If the line is released from a platform that is moving forward, the distance will be greater than if the line is released from a static platform. Hand speed is a function of stretch, the body works the same as the rod. The generation of that stretch and release thereof is the same as the rod moving from MCL to RSP. Creating tension and then releasing it sequentially is the key and it is the same for the body as it is for the rod. The key is “the body” so the less reliant your technique is on the arm and hence any dip, the better.

"Taking it even further, is Paul's rod pullback (perhaps reflected in the slope of the rise after the dip?) performed just before RSP a means of doing the same thing via the same mechanism (by that time the rod is pointing and traveling forward so lifting the hand steeply should decelerate this motion, increase rod fiber tension, and accelerate the tip turnover)."

It is George but the reason is anatomical, there is no alternative if you want the correct release trajectory and to not diminish hand speed too soon with an arm centric action.

John

[Paul Arden]

I think that there are different techniques but certainly on the launch sequence for me I push up from the legs starting from the lowest position of the dip.

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Just heading to the boat. Will post more thoughts tonight.

Cheers, Paul

[George C]

I hope you write a book, John. Your insights are incredibly helpful.

[John Waters]

Paul is right George, my view of fly distance casting is that there are two primary techniques, and each is delineated by how the caster generates hand speed and thus line speed. One is a linear based movement in which the primary source of speed is movement of the body in the direction of the cast and the other being based upon segmented, rotational movement, in which each segment builds on the speed generated by the preceding segment. I spent a lifetime casting with the linear technique, but am now a full convert to the rotational technique. Who knows, I might even get it right one day. When I can coordinate my brain with my fingers, I will brush the dust of the keyboard and document some essentials.

Enjoy your casting,

John

[Paul Arden]

I wish we could cast together more often John; I miss having a regular set of distance casters around me. I was trying to make it happen here in Malaysia but it must be a different sort of nutter who enjoys this stuff

Next time I rebuild my stroke I’ll have a go at doing what I believe you are doing. It certainly helped my left handed backcast!

Cheers, Paul

[John Waters]

Would love to get together with fellow casting nutters and discuss technique options Paul. One day we will.

John

[John Waters]

Maybe it's time for an International Casting Academy, for those interested in casting on the edge.

John

[Paul Arden]

That would be great. I would support that.

[Dirk le Roux]

Here are those old images, in addition to the ones George shared above.

Bart's old stroke:

Bart's old delivery stroke

Fredrik Hedman:

Lasse:

Lasse delivery stroke:

Magnus Uhr:

Ronny Landin:

Ronny Landin's delivery cast:

Stefan Siikavaara:

Steve Rajeff:

[Dirk le Roux]

Here are some more recent traces.

To Gjersøe, false casting forward stroke (showing only the thumb positions and rod butt angles - I was interested in how he rotates through the stroke):

Bernt Johansson's backcast from his second-best (42.9m) PUALD entry:

Bernt's delivery forward stroke from that cast:

With Bernt's traces, I was interested in his trunk motion (prompted by Dr Dave Alred's ideas).

All the best,
Dirk