Arm Path

[John Waters]

Me again gents. I recall some time ago Berndt or Dirk published some videos of hand, elbow, shoulder tracking paths for a few casters. I have tried, unsuccessfully, to recover them using the search function.

Can anyone recall the videos and advise where I can find them?

Thanks in advance,

John

[George C]

Are these what you were thinking of ? They were photos not videos. I think these were on the limp cobra site..........the link for which now takes you to a porn site much to my surprise. Some of the limp cobra stuff is still available but unfortunately not these pictures....at least that I can find.

[John Waters]

Thanks George, the stills showing tracking of hand, elbow and shoulder are what I was seeking, very much appreciated,

Does anyone know what software was used to track the body movement?

John

[Lasse Karlsson]

Those stills are from this thread:
http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/theboard/vie ... f=11&t=608
Unfortunately it look like either the coding is invalid or they pics have been taken down from the net. Hopefully Dirk would be able to reply?

Cheers
Lasse

[John Waters]

Thanks Lasse, that is the thread I was after, much appreciated.

Pity the pics aren't available.

I find the hand path interesting, particularly the dip.

John

[George C]

I too find the dip interesting, and it is why I saved the photos in the first place. I’m a poor caster and came here to learn so my opinion is mostly speculation. I assume the dip is necessary to lower the rod tip during turnover if the rod itself is too stiff to achieve a MCL that maintains a SLP. I also suspect the pulling down of the hand during rotation to “stop” increases tip velocity, partially by using the larger muscles of shoulder and upper arm to accelerate to rotation of the rod but perhaps also by generating a wave that propagates down the rod and helps fling the tip over. Finally, the rise back up after the dip may be the thrust motion that better casters describe.

Does any of this ring true, or am I just way off again.

[Paul Arden]

Hi George, another consideration is that by lowering the hand as the rod comes through you can get your shoulder/ body in behind the cast to launch it. Certainly that’s how it “feels” to me.

It’s a shame that the images are missing. I hope Dirk still has them! It’s a great sequence.

On a separate issue, feel free to post some video of your cast. Filmed from this sort of distance or ever so slightly further away is perfect for analysis.

Cheers, Paul

[Dirk le Roux]

Hi all

I seem to have missed some, being busy with family time.

Those images were posted via Imageshack as I recall, before you could upload them directly to the board.

John, I did the traces on my BIM (sort of CAD) software. I still do from time to time when I want to figure out subtleties of others' casts.

I will look for the old images on PC or an old hard drive and see if I can upload them again. This time directly. Will also revisit the reason for the dip but if you push me for an answer now, it's to maintain SLP during wide angle and late rotation. The upward flourish to maintain SLP during counterflex.

All the best,
Dirk

[John Waters]

Thanks George, Paul and Dirk, it would be great to view the tracking stills again. I think the dip is a consequence of a casting stroke that generates a vertical (or close to) forearm position as it passes the shoulder, and hence the hand must dip forward of the shoulder to generate both the hand path length and the trajectory required for distance. I think it is sourced to body movement constraints rather than rod action. I also find Steve's shoulder path interesting, even though he employs a shorter stroke length than other casters.

The reason for my question is my interest in both hand path and hand speed.

John

[George C]

That makes sense, John, thank you.

What I am also asking myself is how does that dip contribute to a successful cast. Helping to maintain a SLP seems likely the major factor but I wonder if there may be something else going on here.......namely, does the dip itself help to transfer additional kinetic energy from the body system through the rod to the line.

It strikes me that a downward motion of the rod butt between MCL and RSL might accelerate the transfer of energy from the butt of the rod, through the tip and into the line.........much the same way that pulling back on the rod leg of the fly line accelerates the fly leg of the line. Although made of very different material, might the bent rod be acting like a loop where an increase in tension of the stretched graphite fibers accelerates the turn over (i.e., straightening ) thereby increasing tip speed which in turn is imparted to the rod?

Taking it even further, is Paul's rod pullback (perhaps reflected in the slope of the rise after the dip?) performed just before RSP a means of doing the same thing via the same mechanism (by that time the rod is pointing and traveling forward so lifting the hand steeply should decelerate this motion, increase rod fiber tension, and accelerate the tip turnover).

Apologies if this has all been discussed previously.