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Straw Poll on Stepping

John Waters
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Straw Poll on Stepping

#1

Post by John Waters » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:57 pm

Hi All,

I am attempting to document the different techniques used in casting fly distance and the variations within each technique. Stepping forward on the delivery cast is one such variation.

Just a straw poll but who steps, what foot do you step forward with and why do you step with that foot (rod hand side leg or haul hand side leg)? From watching the videos, I glean most use the rod hand side foot to take the major step.

Thanks in advance,

John

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Paul Arden
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:02 am

Hi John,

For about ten years, slightly more, I used Closed Stance distance with a step. I learned this from Rick. When I switched back to Open Stance I use weight shift with out a (full) step. As a method of gathering slack line I think the multiple steps we see as being very useful, but I also feel that it removes power from the cast. It’s not something I’ve spent too much time on however since my training location would see me step off the roof and into the lake. In fact even closed stance stepping would tip me over the edge since the boat road is sloped and rocks down under pressure. What I’ve never liked about the step, when casting off a platform, is this risk of stepping too far (Rick told me he once did this in practise and fell into the casting pond!) and I’ve always held back and had my mind on the wrong thing - ie staying dry instead of throwing my longest cast.

I have of course been taking note of the Swedes for about 8-10 years since most of them do it. I’ve often wondered how a comp would be in a grass field. Last time I was in Sweden casting with Bernt and Ulrik, just prior to Estonia, Bernt and I were neck and neck but he wasn’t stepping. He might have been holding back :cool:

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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John Waters
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#3

Post by John Waters » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:08 am

Thanks Paul, good points you raise, platforms being 1.5 metres long are definitely a factor. I agree, the step does assist in removing sag for the Trout Distance. Interesting point you make about the power of the cast. I have found that to occur also, for me it is a timing fault

Appreciate your reply,

John

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#4

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:02 pm

As long as I have been casting against Bernt, he has been stepping, so he was definetly holding back 🤣

Paul (and Rick) got me to step back in 2005 in Montana, been on and of in comp with it, it takes really good timing to have the same power as not stepping, and that takes alot of practice for me, so I mostly cast open stance and no step. Sometimes conditions makes me switch, then its closed stance stepping with the rod hand side. That keeps my tracking straight if I step with the line hand side, I am all over the place 🤣
I've cast with a few guys who cast about as far as the steppers without stepping, both have extremly good technique and timing, and are both really strong and fast.

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

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John Waters
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#5

Post by John Waters » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:10 pm

Thanks for your reply Lasse, appreciated. Stepping is certainly world's best practice for the Trout Distance. My interest is which leg and why that leg. I agree with you about timing. My only step was a follow through movement when competing on a platform, but when I started with the Trout Distance I was comfortable with a static stance with a 5 weight carry of approximately 75 feet but more than that I struggled, and even more so with a tail wind. Took me a while to get steps coordinated so that I did not experience the lack of power Paul mentioned. Like all movement, timing and speed are the building blocks and the former takes a bit of practice.

Again thanks for your feedback,

John

Michal Duzynski
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#6

Post by Michal Duzynski » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:48 am

Hi
My 2 cents on the subject after my recent good session with 43.8m PUALD cast using the step sequence.
  I am not good with all the biomechanics, but I don't want to sound like a numnut who just wave a rod and gets lucky, so I also think and analyse what I am doing.
  I learn distance casting by watching the best guys out there, and a lot, a lot of pracrice.
I don't stick to my technique which feels comfortable to me, but takes me nowhere. It is continues learning process for me, so I will keep working on it and chage it until I am satisfied with entire thing.
  I tried it all( distance casting strokes), mostly with 170 style. I also tried stepping, but I cut it off very quickly as it did not work for me at the time, so I continued with open stance and again tried to match the body movement of the best casters.
 My PUALD CHALLENGE history can picture it well, I think.
  In all the entries wind was ok, last entry wind was good, but...
Entry 1- 39.9m
Entry 2- 40.2m
  Both open stance
Entry 3 - 41.9m with stepping
Entry 4 - 43.8m with stepping
  Paul mentioned lost of power in the delivery cast while stepping, but as we all know POWER is not the key.
  When I start cast with open stance I don't stay firm with my legs. Even with open stance, my right leg does a half a step back, I don't know why, it just feel right on a long pick up and followed by false casting long line.
  On the delivery cast with open stance, I try to rotate as late as possible, but what it does for me, it make me to lean forward. Yes I do rotate late, but there is no energy in the cast, and I am losing it 6 out of 10.
 
I thought, if the momentum is pushing me forward, because of a lot of power in the cast, and I finish with my right leg forward( started in the back), why not to try stepping and finish with the right foot strongly placed forward?? Especially after I saw Bernt casting and his results.
  ... so I started stepping and on the delivery the power comes from my torso rotation and bend right leg/rod leg( big push) what is  happening to my hands, they both focus on speed- haul speed and rotation speed. They can, as the rotation will be late anyway, because of the long transition during the step  
  Look at my video of STD, there is so much power in the delivery that the momentum in my body movement is pushing me forward and I end up with my rod leg forward.

   Just remember, it not going to go 50m because you just start stepping. It all have to be practiced and executed 100%- i still got some work to do.

P.s
  Learning this technique on a platform might be a challege😁😁😁

Cheers
Mike
 



John Waters
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#7

Post by John Waters » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:42 am

Thanks Michal, appreciate your detailed reply.

You step with your rod leg on your forward cast for the Trout Distance but you do not step for the Sea Trout. Is there a reason as to why you do not step with the shooting head distance?

Thanks again,

John

Michal Duzynski
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#8

Post by Michal Duzynski » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:09 am

No worries John
The video of ST was before I start to step in TD, it was just to show that my body is falling forward after the delivery- so much power😁, and it happen with TD as well, but now it feels very stable and my sholders are( i think) in a good position for the final cast. Soon I will try stepping with ST and see if there as any benefits of it.
Also regarding slack while stepping. During the PUALD challenge guys said they shoot the line in the BC. I tried, but then realised I piked too much. When I pick up less and shoot the line into the BC, the line is still shooting back while I begin my step forward. It gives me a nice slide aling the line and I pinch the line with the hauling hand just before the final delivery that result in a tension boost in the line.
I am not sure if Bernt is doing it but it works for me.
Obiously you need to find the proper amout of line in order not to have too much.
I noticed that picking up with fly at 24-25m with smooth ,but energetic stroke gives me best results.
The timing of steps vs line shooting in the BC is good.
Again, that just my thoughts and they are based after my latest cast.
I will go back to practice soon and see if that is the case.

Mike

John Waters
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#9

Post by John Waters » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:08 am

Thanks Michal, very much appreciated.

John

Michal Duzynski
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Re: Straw Poll on Stepping

#10

Post by Michal Duzynski » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:16 pm

No worries John. I hope it make sense, and helped?
Cheers
Mike

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