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Current Stroke

John Waters
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Re: Current Stroke

#11

Post by John Waters »

Certainly don't agree with the advice from that conditioning coach Gary. Could not be more incorrect.

John
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Paul Arden
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Re: Current Stroke

#12

Post by Paul Arden »

We are not actually born with one or the other but a mix of both. Here are a couple of links:

https://www.thestrengthandconditioningc ... scle-fiber

https://www.stack.com/a/fast-twitch-muscles

The interesting thing about flycasting sport is that there is a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Where I do think there is one major advantage that is difficult to get around is height. But technique still beats height - look at Maxine.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions
nicholasfmoore
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Re: Current Stroke

#13

Post by nicholasfmoore »

Hi All,
Hi Nick
2 things
- try to drift on a BC
- loose you grip while drifting back

Now it looks like this \\\\/ the rod is already in rotation fase, try to make it look like this
-----\/ ( maybe not exact drawing, but you might get the idea)
Thanks, Michal i'll practice that more and give it another go. Would you recommend stepping on the false casts or just the delivery? I stopped stepping because i noticed my tracking wasn't as tidy. Do you prefer my other stroke with the step?
It looks good to me Nick. I think your haul on the backcast should be straight and not curved. Imagine you are karate chopping someone’s neck, or something like that :) It should be explosive - bang!
i noticed the curve :laugh: I feel like i'm giving it everything i've got with the haul, so not sure how to increase velocity. :( This wasn't my best day, 120' is actually very disappointing. I'm usually mid - high 120's now, and a foot off 130', so not sure what happened.
but would add you also need to be explosive with your forearm rotation and finish that earlier. Might I also suggest you do not coincide your hand and body movement on your forward cast.

Thanks, John :cool:

Thanks all, i will concentrate on those points. It's nice that there is always room for improvement with distance :cool:

All the best!
Nick M

"Memento Piscantur Saepe" :upside:
Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Current Stroke

#14

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

Paul Arden wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:18 pm
We are not actually born with one or the other but a mix of both.
Yes, that is what I meant when I used the word "percentage". Most folks have more of one than the other, and that is what determines their physicality. That gym trainer was only the first to relay that information. Later, a student who was a doctor (both MD and PhD) and the the lead exercise physiologist for a national Olympics team said the same thing. In fact, he said every Olympic athlete on their team is/was subjected to a muscle biopsy to establish their percentage. The results of that test helps put them in the correct competition event.

But, of course, they could have not been more incorrect. :D

Paul Arden wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:18 pm The interesting thing about flycasting sport is that there is a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Where I do think there is one major advantage that is difficult to get around is height. But technique still beats height - look at Maxine.

Cheers, Paul
Or, look at Steve Rajeff? I personally suspect he is a bit outside the norm and has all three: power, speed, and coordination. I wonder if he has had a biopsy?

But, as to height, I don't remember Steve being all that tall, certainly he is shorter than my 6'2". What I noticed about him is his strong base - a characteristic of the three best distance casters I have personally witnessed. But, maybe I notice that because that is exactly what I do not possess?

How tall are you, Paul?
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…

“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Current Stroke

#15

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

Nick,

Out of curiosity, what rod and reel are you using? It looks like a pretty large outfit.

Now, let me admit up front that I am not a world champion level distance caster, but I did notice that in your final presentation stroke your hand remains closed and your fingers tight.

I have found that incorporating the hand, as in closing the fingers to accelerate the final turn-over, to be surprisingly helpful. Paul and Mac Brown both had suggested it... Mac calls it "pulling"... but I had to try it myself before I bought in.

I will also admit that I cannot do it as extreme as Paul or as Michael demonstrates in his video above... in what looks like a javelin type hold, on the forward stoke. But I do open my hand up somewhat to allow for closing the lower fingers at the end.

The reason I asked about your equipment is because I have found the heavier the rod/reel is the harder it is for me to control the forward cast with that loose cradle grip. Personally, when I'm casting 10wt outfits and up I cannot open the hand hardly at all.
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…

“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
John Waters
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Re: Current Stroke

#16

Post by John Waters »

Interesting information Gary about

"Yes, that is what I meant when I used the word "percentage". Most folks have more of one than the other, and that is what determines their physicality. That gym trainer was only the first to relay that information. Later, a student who was a doctor (both MD and PhD) and the the lead exercise physiologist for a national Olympics team said the same thing. In fact, he said every Olympic athlete on their team is/was subjected to a muscle biopsy to establish their percentage. The results of that test helps put them in the correct competition event.

But, of course, they could have not been more incorrect. :D "

The science of human movement is fact and continues to improve performance in all aspects of life, not just sport. All sports have adopted human movement coaching as a prerequisite to performance improvement and that includes casting. Specific exercise programs are one important aspect of that essential foundation to improvement.

Just want to clarify that your post earlier (#9) about the advice you got from your gym trainer was that there were no "specific routines to improve your fly casting". Irrespective of your muscle type make up, that advice is absolutely incorrect. There certainly are a number of specific routines and programs that will very specifically improve your fly casting, all are based on human movement and performance science and which target the movement essentials needed for a day's fishing. Those essentials include improved endurance, control, flexibility, speed and power, to name a few. I use one specific casting related routine designed by two experts, one a PHD in Human Movement and the other, a Professor of Sports Science. When I grow up I hope I can achieve the program's objectives. :D

Your reference to physiology being a driver to competitive sport selection illustrates the extent to which both sports science and sporting performance has developed concurrently. It also applies to all walks of life. Anyone who has followed any rehabilitation or movement improvement program has benefited from that science and I recommend specific fly casting improvement exercises to all fishers. They don’t have to morph into a gym rat, start with a simple flexibility program targeting the specific casting movement and muscle groups. Get good advice and follow it, it will make your day at the water more enjoyable, irrespective of your body shape, musculature profile or age.

John
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Paul Arden
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Re: Current Stroke

#17

Post by Paul Arden »

I’m six feet tall, Gary. I think perhaps we are discussing different levels here. I agree that a world class endurance athlete will have a different build to a word class sprinter. That’s obvious looking at the Olympics. I don’t think we are at that level with FC sport. If we were I would think a Javelin build to be optimal for some of our distance events. Not all the 5WT champions have been built like Steve however. Far from it. However Steve did liken it to trying to throw a ping pong ball as far as possible :D

Me personally in my life, I’ve both sprint trained daily for rugby when I was a lad. And later I’ve endurance trained for long distance running and Ironman events. I wasn’t ever going to win any sprinting medals, nor in fact would I ever be competitive at elite level Ironman! However I’ve definitely had a different shape to me between the two disciplines.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Current Stroke

#18

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

OK
John I am sorry you totally misinterpreted what I meant to convey. I was specifically talking about "explosiveness". And I did not mean to imply that there are no ways to improve casting. I thought that I clarified that with my last sentence.

I thought I would convey some information that I had gleaned from others who seemed to know more about the subject than I did.

My bad! I won't do it again.
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…

“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Current Stroke

#19

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Are you getting shorter with old age Paul? Thought yiu where taller 😉
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Re: Current Stroke

#20

Post by Michal Duzynski »

Hi Nick
This is why we practice, to see what works best for us.
I used to use open stance, but when I had a lot of line out and then get ready for the final delivery, I start to overthink it, and hit it hard, this resulted in my body to twist too much, squeeze the rod too much and even if I had all line out from my feet it landed in a curve. I watched the guys who steps, I've tried, and it works for me, because stepping improved my tracking. All casts land straight- so I stick to it.
I like small steps during false cast just to get my body in the rhythm and big step on delivering. Again, this is me, go out there and try different things- there is no rush.
I used to think that I won't change my stroke, because I don't like changes, and I was trying to improve in many ways my current (at the time) stroke. Results were just OK, and every session ended with thought in my head what I will do tomorrow to make it better.
Now with stepping, I am happy with every session and by being happy and relaxed the results are better, not overthink, overpowered delivery etc...and the most important- I get very consistent in my casts
Keep trying - and focus on being consistent, then you can throw it with your eyes closed.

Gym exercise to help with explosive haul - train triceps, especially with the rope when you have to open your arms on the end of the stroke.

Cheers
Mike
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