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[JBBooks]

Hello all, just joined. Started fly fishing about a year ago, always obsessive with new interests so I've been casting daily, fishing often, & trying out diff rods, lines, leaders, etc. I have a casting question:

The fly / upper leg of my loop sometimes waves back & forth horizontally before straightening out on the landing. Looks kind of like a slithering snake. I call it a 'flailing loop'. I don't get this nearly as much with my fastest action 7, 8, & 9 wt rods (Sage Foundations & Payload), happens more using medium fast action 5 & 6 wts (Echo Carbon XL, St Croix Mojo Trout)

I am assuming it is an issue with overpowering the more moderate action rods, or related to deviating from a straight path. Ideas?

[Paul Arden]

Hi JB and welcome to the Board!!

That’s almost certainly a tracking issue. But that it then lands straight is impressive!

There are a few possible reasons for this. It’s either where the line is being positioned on the backcast or the path the rod tip follows during the casting stroke.

What does your leader look like?

It’s late here and I need to think about this

Cheers, Paul

[JBBooks]

Yea, it's weird. The wavy snake straightens out as it hits the ground & finishes straight. Figures I'd have some odd problem .

I think it is a tracking issue as you say. It happens less when I concentrate on pushing my hand forward straight on the forward stroke, and also if I back off and let the rod do the work. May be a combination. I have discovered that I am much happier with powerful, fast action rods, probably from a lifetime of spin fishing.

[Paul Arden]

A good practise drill is to cast along a straight line and allow your backcast to fall to the ground to check that your backcast is angled straight. A better one is to cast towards a video camera and record yourself. It is very normal for the backcast to be angled off-shoulder and not straight back. However on distance this usually results in a curved layout.

To get the line waving is unusual. Does this happen with all fly lines?

What do you have tied on the end of the flyline? Do you have a tapered leader and some fluff? Or straight mono? Does the same thing happen with a fly on the end?

I have seen a similar thing happen as a result of when the rod counterflexes at an angle and not vertical. This would fit with the softer rod. But we need to eliminate the above potential causes first!

Cheers, Paul

[JBBooks]

Thanks much! Have been meaning to video my casting, will do that this week, excellent suggestion.

I have checked my backcast and it always lays out pretty straight, but I do have some early / late timing issues.

It happens with all the lines I use: Gold, Infinity, Wulff TT, Avid Trout. I usually have a tapered mono or furled leader w/o fly or just a piece of yarn tied on. It happens with any leader and with or w/o a yarn fly.

The more powerful rods seem to not produce the effect as much, even when I power haul & lean on them. I have also played with different hauling strokes & speed.

Lately I have been making a game out of seeing what the absolute minimal hand & arm movement is that still propels the line. I realized I have been making body and arm movements that really aren't required to get a good cast.

I'll go back to the pond, do some videos, & more 'research' & get back to you. Really appreciate the help, Thx!

[Paul Arden]

Hi JB,

If you upload the video to a YouTube or Vimeo account you can embed it here. We can also do that for you. So I’m expecting this…

This is a birds eye view of the cast. The thing that looks like an eye is actually a sombrero. 1 is a tracking error where the backcast isn’t aligned to front. And 2 is a curved/sliced casting stroke in addition to 1. This will result in a snake in the rod leg. It can be very subtle.

But — and It’s a big but — I’m guessing

You can get a lot of good advice here. What I would ask for is a video shot from the side of your upper half or full frame of your body. Not a video from 100’ away but 10’ away, the camera on a tripod (or duck taped to a fence post) and with you casting to three targets. Let’s say 30’, 40’ and 50’. That’s where I normally start anyway. That won’t solve a tracking error but will give us a better insight into what you are currently doing.

How did you initially start learning to cast? It would be good to see your stroke before I start offering too much advice.

Where do you fish?

Cheers, Paul

[whinging pom]

JBBrooks welcome and Please ignore what i'm saying here I know zilch! i have a similar affliction and im trying to understand.....Just listen to Paul!

Paul
I was reading this as another learner and this sentence stood out to me...It happens less when he concentrates...... '' and also if I back off and let the rod do the work.'' And thinking about the inconsistency of the problem

Is it possibly a tension/over gripping problem?
When the hand reaches the back cast stop and over pressures the grip sending the rod tip off to the side, then on the forward cast it pulls it back into straight track.
If he's mindfully thinking about casting and dropping his back cast behind him it probably wouldn't happen, Im thinking its a kind of fault that appears when things are going wrong and tension appears or when he's just gripping and casting without thinking too much about what he's doing.
OR am i overthinking this?
all best
Pom

[Paul Arden]

I would think it probably exaggerates the problem, Pom. If we “over-grip” and everything is straight then it won’t wiggle from side to side. The softer rod is interesting because it makes me think of counterflex.

However I think there might be some other things to look at too. If everything else is good and this is the only issue then, fantastic! But in the entire history of flycasting I don’t think that’s ever happened

It’s interesting though, because to my memory this has never been asked before on the Board.

Cheers, Paul

[JBBooks]

Many thanks for all the great input! After much 'research' (that's what I tell my wife I'm doing) & more closely observing & taking videos, I have pretty much figured it out. Unsurprisingly, the issue is not unique to me , they are transverse waves.

My issue with them is caused about 50% by timing, 20% by not making hard stops, 20% off-tracking, & 10% line selection.

I have fast action rods, & discovered I was being too slow starting the forward cast. Once I sped up my stroke cadence, the transverse waves mostly went away. Focusing on making hard stops consistently also helped. At times my straight tracking gets off a bit, which also contributes. Finally, I find I have a distinct preference for longer bellied lines with gradual tapers. Using Wulff Triangle Taper & SA Mastery Infinity results in far fewer transverse waves for me.

Since learning to double haul, I continue to experiment with hauling. I cast as far as I can without hauling, the add just a single haul on the backcast, and finally double haul for max distance. Good hauling speed combined with a more rapid stroke cadence is working wonders.

I also find that for me, casting with the rod at about a 45 deg angle sideways is the most efficient, gives me the best loops consistently, and the easiest distance with good leader turnover.

Now, more research! Many thx again for all the feedback, great group!

[Paul Arden]

Hi John,

I have a couple of things you can try. The first is to separate the haul speed from the stroke. In particular speed up the haul while keeping the stroke slow. This will take some practise but it will result in tighter loops, as one advantage.

The other is to practise a casting drill on all planes from the vertical to the horizontal, back to the vertical and then across body to the “other” horizontal. Eg 12 o clock, 11, 10, 9, 10…. 1, 2, 3, 2… etc. Two false casts at each position.

A 45 degree casting plane causes problems both with accuracy and distance techniques, because either the loop is at a 45 degree plane or the loop and rod planes have been separated. Anyway the above exercise will help you move that around.

Cheers, Paul