PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

Loop Morph

Moderator: Torsten

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3617
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#41

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:49 pm

And there's the numbers :D

What kind of phone do you have, a Nokia 3310?

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Loop Morph

#42

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:14 pm

Whichever Anna that is... that is a beautiful cast to watch.

I never see anyone casting with that style in person over here, but I have tried it myself and I can get some "loop morph" too, although nowhere as extreme.

But I have a question...

Do y'all think there is some benefit from continuing the rod arc all the way down to the ground? Or is that just a result of trying for maximum acceleration and not attempting to stop?

Watching Anna, it appears her maximum is when the rod is almost vertical and her haul has reached max extension. How could continuing the rod movement add anything positive after that point?

Is the idea to add slack immediately so as to delay tension on the nascent loop?
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

Håvard Stubø

Michal Duzynski
Posts: 1098
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:14 pm
Location: Brisbane-Australia
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#43

Post by Michal Duzynski » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:32 pm

Hi
This section of tge board is not my strongest, but I love the discussion.



I really like this video of Peter Hayes. Funny how he says that with 170 is less effort, and for some 170 seem like crazy waving of a rod.

Hi John, I remember what you told me few years back-
Why cast wide loop with 170 and wait till it morphs, when you can cast tight loop from the begining with
11-1 style. I tried for a bit, and maybe it is my lack of skills with 11-1, but I find myself with less carry, and more colisions of the loop on the BC when I put some line in it.
I also agree with Peter that 170 and the time of loop morph gives me more time to prepare and rethink next stroke.

Cheers
Mike

John Waters
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Loop Morph

#44

Post by John Waters » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:24 am

Hi Michal,
I too enjoy the posts on Sexyloops, love reading any statement about casting. All comments makes me think about what I do and why and I learn as a consequence. Getting too old to put the suggestions here about technique into practice but nevertheless, I try and most importantly thoroughly enjoy trying.
I always enjoy catching up with a Peter, unfortunately for me those occasions are far too infrequent now but I remember him showing me the 170 cast, it was the first time I had seen it. In Haysie’s inimitable manner he said; hey John I want to show you a new way of casting fly distance. I always enjoy Peter’s company and our discussions about casting. I did so when he was a 16 year old lad and I used to pick him up in my car and take him to casting tournaments, and still do now (enjoy his company and thoughts about casting that is, not drive him around). I was intrigued then and continue to be now with the technique
I know I am swimming against the tide here, but I do not agree it is easier, nor do I think it allows for longer rod travel vs. the 11 to 1. I suspect, the reason you are experiencing those nasties is you are not ending with the rod in the correct throwing position to start your forward cast. That is the key to the 11 to 1 technique. Look at Steve Rajeff, he does it, but not to the full backward position that some of the 170 casters are achieving. It is all about what works for you, but I think throwing principles transcend different gear and events.
Will be interesting to see the future of casting technique,

John

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12134
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#45

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:17 am

It’s funny Gary, I’ve heard the 170 referred to as the “European Style” :D It came out of the Best of the West and was refined by Rick Hartman. First time I saw him he looked like an elephant and I swore never to learn it. Next time everything had changed and I had no choice but to learn it.

You ask an interesting question. When all the Swedes start to do the same thing it’s not by chance. I believe she is pointing the rod tip at the bottom of the wedge in the loop.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12134
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#46

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:07 am

What kind of phone do you have, a Nokia 3310?
No I have an iPhone X but I'm considering a Huawei :p
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3617
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#47

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:10 am

Michal Duzynski wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:32 pm

I really like this video of Peter Hayes. Funny how he says that with 170 is less effort, and for some 170 seem like crazy waving of a rod.

Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike

Physics, less effort over longer time /distance and output might be greater, and if you have been schooled that a short stroke short arc is the most efficient, most beautiful, only and right way to cast, then 170 flies in the face of all that :D believe me I have been at the recieving end of that argument far to often...
But I do love how the 170 really spans the globe, best of the West, Rick Hartmann refines and teaches Paul, I go to Montana and Paul teaches me, I go to Australia and Peter steals my backcast :p

Backcast in 11-1 is alot of bicep, and bodyblocking, backcast in 170 is running through the finish line instead of stopping at it. And it's more tricep and running out of space.
Forward delivery cast in 11-1 is mainly tricep and running out of arm.
Forward delivery in 170 is mainly tricep and running out of arm.

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

User avatar
Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3617
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#48

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:11 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:07 am
What kind of phone do you have, a Nokia 3310?
No I have an iPhone X but I'm considering a Huawei :p
Let me guess, screens scratched like hell :p
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 12134
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#49

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:20 am

I disagree, John. I had similar discussions with Frank on the Board ten years ago. I've watched Steve open up his arc over the past decade or so in the Worlds, but I just don't see that style dealing with the winds that we've had in Cumbria or in Norway at times. There is no way that you can fire 90ft of line into a strong wind with the compact style. I watched you struggle with the wind in Cumbria too; you weren't able to straighten 60ft let alone the 90ish you need to be competitive.

On a 90ft carry the loop must start open because morphing is going to tighten it. If you try to throw a 4ft loop off the tip it will morph into a collision. On the video I posted the loop starts at 8ft wide and morphs tight. Any less than this and it would morph into a collision, in fact it's colliding right at the end and could do with starting a little wider IMO.

I've been casting the 170 style for over 15 years now having learned it from Rick Hartman. I've thrown all styles and there is no way the compact style can match the line speed the 170 generates in the backcast.

Bart is an interesting example. He had a very nice compact stroke for the past fifteen years. Was at the worlds in Cumbria, gave up his style and spent two months casting every day learning the 170. He's now broken my BFCC record twice in the past year and will be right at the top in Sweden next year.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

Michal Duzynski
Posts: 1098
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:14 pm
Location: Brisbane-Australia
Contact:

Re: Loop Morph

#50

Post by Michal Duzynski » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:11 am

Cheers Lasse

Now, looks like we are talking BC only...
What about delivery cast??
If the 170 adds speed to the loop and the BB morph tight, we should do the same on the delivery- right?
I dont do that, and I stop and hit hard at around 45 degrees.
So how does it work- do we want BB and 170 on the delivery???
I feel confused asking it , but I,know you will figure out what I have in mind ha,ha
Mike

Post Reply

Return to “Flycasting Physics”