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Question about tails

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easterncaster
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Re: Question about tails

#51

Post by easterncaster » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:00 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:58 am
Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:35 am
Having shared some messages with Bernd the terms “tracking” and “tailing loops” have different meanings for us. For me tailing loops are tails in the loop plane. For Bernd he is in the rod plane. Tracking for me is the rod tip path perpendicular to rod plane. I think Bernd is simply a straight rod plane and I know for others it might even be the bird’s eye view of the tip path!
Mate,
so when the caster is overhead casting in the vertical plane, you would watch the tip from the side view (perpendicular = 90 degrees) and call that tracking? :???:

In the old times of the board tracking always was tip path (RSP0 to RSP1) seen from above (bird's view). So it was about keeping the tip within the vertical plane. For that you would watch down (along) that plane.

Problem I had with that, was that it was great when the cast was done by rod movement in the vert. plane. But when side casting one was clearly controlling a different thing! In side casting the tip would always have much worse tracking. Didn't make sende to me.

So I changed and called tracking to be rod movement within one and one only plane. For that I would look down that plane.
I remember about ten years back you did agree on that to make sense. I could find that for you. :p :D

To understand tails to be waves in loop plane doesn't make sense to me. Tails were always about having lost control about a smooth increase in rod bend. That of course hapoens within rod plane.

Cheers
B

I often teach it, describe it as a Drafting table - the sort I was taught on with it's ability to adjust tilt. The entire surface moves, flat, no twist - giving us Tracking and Casting plane.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Question about tails

#52

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:35 pm

Drafting table I like! Easy understandable... :yeahhh:
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Re: Question about tails

#53

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:35 am

Hi Craig,

I asked Bernd the same question (via messenger) about a week ago, is it possible to have curved tracking? The drafting table is only straight tracking.

Tracking as I see it, is to take that table and suspend it so that it is perpendicular to the casting plane, positioned at the rod tip, stick a big magic marker in the rod tip and tracking is the resulting tip path drawn on the board.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Question about tails

#54

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:46 pm

Actually that’s only one part of tracking. The other equally important use of the term, is that the back target and front target align. But certainly when it comes to curving the tracking (for example some of the curve casts) I believe we have to be looking at the rod tip path in one plane.

Tracking (for me) refers to the rod tip path perpendicular to rod plane and the 5 essentials, for example, control how the tip deviates above and below this tracking plane. Another way of looking at it is an x,y, z axis. x is rod/casting plane (and this plane sets the x axis), y is tracking and z rod tip height.

That’s why when we put the loop plane at 90 degrees to the rod plane as in the pendulum/underhand/inverted cast, the loop height is controlled by y (tracking) and the parallel legs controlled by z (tip’s distance to rod butt).

I’ll draw a picture.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Question about tails

#55

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:59 pm

This is how I see it.
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Re: Question about tails

#56

Post by easterncaster » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:02 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:35 am
Hi Craig,

I asked Bernd the same question (via messenger) about a week ago, is it possible to have curved tracking? The drafting table is only straight tracking.

Tracking as I see it, is to take that table and suspend it so that it is perpendicular to the casting plane, positioned at the rod tip, stick a big magic marker in the rod tip and tracking is the resulting tip path drawn on the board.

Cheers, Paul
Yes, of course, curved tracking! Sorry I got caught up in the ever present must-throw-fly-furthest stance < flat tracking. If one wants to curve it, bend the line, then that is good tracking as well. Intent matters.

An image for that is a 3-D topo map, often plastic, set on a table (sorry for another table analogy... ). Imagine getting your nose down to table edge and looking across.

Think also of the when they show the days stage during the Tour, they have a colored line follow the course. We get idea of length, curves, height changes all in relation to the start and finish (targets, fore n aft).

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Re: Question about tails

#57

Post by easterncaster » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:09 pm

Another way I describe Tracking:

Good single-plane tracking is two-dimensional. Yes, I know we live in a three-dimensional world... but think of casting with a Height and a Length only. We do not want a Width, or as minimal as possible. No twist, no swing around.

When we curve our lines course/path we add Width to our cast... aka more three-dimension.

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Re: Question about tails

#58

Post by easterncaster » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:00 pm

easterncaster wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:02 pm


Yes, of course, curved tracking! Sorry I got caught up in the ever present must-throw-fly-furthest stance* < flat tracking. If one wants to curve it, bend the line, then that is good tracking as well. Intent matters.

...
clarification:

*stance = mind set. Not stance as in footwork

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