Rod tip speed

[Graeme H]

Paul, that’s the type of question they ask in section 3 of the MCI exam.

Cheers, Graeme

[Lou Bruno]

Paul
Yea...I've been told. I guide and teach, like to know offer my best.
SL helps...thanks.
Lou

[Paul Arden]

Paul, that’s the type of question they ask in section 3 of the MCI exam.

Cheers, Graeme

Ok then in order to answer this question you need to know how to measure the centre of gravity. How does one do this for a fly cast?

Cheers, Paul

[jarmo]

Viewed differently, you will rarely see a tournament caster using a shorter rod than the allowed length for the event.

Which reminded me of this:

https://vimeo.com/33106175

Planning on taking the FFF master exam. I'm in the process studying the material they suggest.

OT. Just learned how hard it is to find some of that material. I happen to have some of the rare items (Buhr, J. Borger), but it seems I have to win the lottery literally or figuratively to get to read books such as Richards' Modern Fly Lines or G. Borger's Presentation. (Which, based on what I have read, are great books.)

[Paul Arden]

I don’t think it has to do with centre of gravity but instead levers. A shorter lever can be rotated faster but the longer lever should result in higher tip speed because the length amplifies the motion. At some point there is an optimal length for both single handed and double handed rods which is dependent on both the weight of the line and the strength - and possibly technique - of the caster.

Cheers, Paul

[Lou Bruno]

Viewed differently, you will rarely see a tournament caster using a shorter rod than the allowed length for the event.

Which reminded me of this:

https://vimeo.com/33106175

Planning on taking the FFF master exam. I'm in the process studying the material they suggest.

OT. Just learned how hard it is to find some of that material. I happen to have some of the rare items (Buhr, J. Borger), but it seems I have to win the lottery literally or figuratively to get to read books such as Richards' Modern Fly Lines or G. Borger's Presentation. (Which, based on what I have read, are great books.)

Jarmo
I find authors, at times share different opinions. Best to read, ask questions to clarify issues...then try things out by practice.
My approach is at minimum understand the "basics"...in casting, fly rod design, fly line design, fishing techniques...etc.
Lou

[Graeme H]

I don’t think it has to do with centre of gravity but instead levers. A shorter lever can be rotated faster but the longer lever should result in higher tip speed because the length amplifies the motion. At some point there is an optimal length for both single handed and double handed rods which is dependent on both the weight of the line and the strength - and possibly technique - of the caster.

Cheers, Paul

The bit in bold holds true only for the same rotational velocity, but a caster with a given strength may not be able to produce the same rotational velocity with a longer lever.

To give a hypothetical (and clearly impossible) example at the extreme end, what would happen if we used that rule and tried casting an 18' rod single handed? That lever is twice as long as a 9' rod, so we should get a much faster tip speed than with a 9' rod, shouldn't we?

I don't think anybody would be able to get a higher tip speed with an 18' than they can with an 8' rod. The strength required to rotate the rod is the limiting factor here.

Yes, there is an optimal rod length in a given situation, but I think the strength of the caster has a much bigger impact on determining that optimal length than your answer implies. I don't think the "standard" 9' carbon fibre rod length is optimal for anyone who is not a male between 16 and 70 (e.g. children and women.) 9' is a length that works for men in many situations, but like all things in fly fishing, it's a compromise.

Saying a 9' rod is the correct length is like saying a 5wt line is correct weight. Sometimes they are true, sometimes they are not. There's nothing wrong with experimenting.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

Yes of course, I agree with all that. And the optimal length also depends on the weight of the line and the length of carry.

I have no idea why 9ft became so popular. It’s definitely an American thing that we’ve adapted to.

Cheers, Paul