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Loop Morph

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John Waters
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Re: Loop Morph

#61

Post by John Waters »

That is correct Paul, my description of the 11 to 1 excludes the drift backwards to set up the delivery from a throwing position. Steve’s power arc is 11 to 1 (approx) then he follows through with his forearm rotation post the block to between 2 and 3 using the old clock face analogy. That widens the arc, increases the stroke and allows time for him to action his torso in his throwing or casting action. That post block rotation is why I suggested to Michal that he needs to position his rod in the same position when he has used the 11 to 1, but had loop shape issues. It is also why I believe the 170 technique results in the best starting position from a throwing action eg javelin. There are some differences with both the 11 to 1 and the 170 techniques to javelin but I think the 170 is the closer of the two and that makes it a better positioning.

John
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Loop Morph

#62

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

John Waters wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:19 pm Sorry to be obtuse Gents but I am interested in understanding the “why” about 170 and backcast line speed. I understand Lasse’s comment about the musculature but when does the loop in the 170? Does the line overtake the rod tip when the rod moves past the vertical, or when the rod is much closure to the horizontal?

Thanks in advance,

John
Hi John

When the rod is much closer to horisontal, it's quite impossible for it to do before :)



I'll see if I can get better footage soon :blush:

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Lasse
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Loop Morph

#63

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

In the meantime these are good to watch, some of the best casters in the world:







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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: Loop Morph

#64

Post by Paul Arden »

To be honest John the theory always comes after the practical for me. I imagine it’s because we power through the stop position on the 11-1 stroke. Certainly the 11-1 stroke feels extremely truncated nowadays!

For me it’s always been like adjusting my bike saddle. At first it feels weird and the results are poorer. But after a month or two then I know if it’s better or not. It’s like that for me in flycasting too - then we throw the theory around it later.

If it wasn’t that way I don’t think anyone would be throwing 170! :)

Cheers, Paul
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John Waters
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Re: Loop Morph

#65

Post by John Waters »

Thanks Lasse and Paul,

Those videos are great Lasse, it is difficult for me to see exactly where the loop forms but I was able to see a frame on the one with the shed in the background and on one false cast his rod was straight at 10 o’clock position, but there is certainly far more rod velocity later in the stroke on the backcast. That makes sense to me physiologically.
I will try and get some comparative video of two backcasts with exactly the same length of line and try and measure back cast loop speed. I use Hudl Technique which has a timer overlay, but I am not sure how accurate it is. See how I go and try and post the videos here. I assume the no block result on the distance backcast would be the same as a no block result on a much shorter cast eg an accuracy cast, so I will also try and film that to see when the loop actually forms.
The older I get and the less distance I cast, the more interest I have in the “why”. Logic would indicate to me that I should reverse that transition, but logic has always been a challenge for me.
You are correct Paul, I think most of our knowledge of technique develops the way you describe. Someone does something differently and achieves an often unexpected result, and then the analysis of why and how begins.
Is there some video of the trout and sea trout events in Cumbria? One aspect of the two techniques I am very interested in is the over-the-top profile of the no block vs the closed loop of the blocked backcast, particularly in strong wind.
Loving the light line events, but I may have a tip for future competitors. Nothing to to with technique, but with that trial and error process Paul mentioned. As I said, logic is a challenge for me. I was in hospital on the practice day in Cumbria with tests for deep vein thrombosis and got back almost at dark. Had a cast of the sea trout line with an uncut line and thought it was too long for the conditions. Had a light bulb moment that evening and cut 4 metres of the back end, taking a gamble that the shorter line would be better in the wind, BUT that the resulting underlining would still give a positive outcome. Tip is have different lines prepared and be familiar with them before the event and take more than 1 line with you.

John
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Graeme H
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Re: Loop Morph

#66

Post by Graeme H »

Here's how Matty Howell throws the "sexyloop" shape, keeping tension in the line at all times by lifting the rod tip after counter flex. "Creep", lift and drift are all in there and it's quite amazing to watch him in action.

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Graeme

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Paul Arden
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Re: Loop Morph

#67

Post by Paul Arden »

The loop “forms” the moment that the force applies to the line becomes less. Usually this translates back to the moment the haul finishes. This is then the separation between fly and rod legs. For a long time we believed it was RSP until we discovered that this was sometimes incorrect.

Cheers, Paul
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John Waters
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Re: Loop Morph

#68

Post by John Waters »

Having a look at Graeme’s video of Matt Howell casting a blocked backcast, I noticed the height of the line travelling past his body. That was my earlier comment about the 11 to 1 blocked technique often delivering an underslung shaped backcast, unless the haul and block are very powerful and late. Compare that to the over-the-top loop shape of the casts in Lasses’s videos above, particularly the caster outdoors. The vertical height of his line as it travels past his body is much higher. Has to be better.
Just got back from a casting session. Took the 5 weight for a run. I had not cast that event for some weeks as I had been training with the 27 gram and 38 gram head events. I have a MED marked at carry distances in intervals of 5 feet in the 75 feet to 90 feet range. Struggled initially getting to control 85 and 90 feet but after a while and a few sit downs, I got control of the 90 feet carry. The wind was nowhere near Cumbrian strength, nor strong enough to impact the back turnover. Tried both techniques and was pleased with the outcomes, however, swapping techniques on a cast by cast basis, really shunted home the importance of one stark difference. How late and powerful the haul has to be and how late the forearm rotation and block has to be to achieve an over-the -top back loop shape with a blocked backcast technique. I take the point about achieving that in Cumbrian wind gusts so more work needed by me.

Paul, I forgot to mention before when you named casters who will be fighting out final spots in Sweden. One bloke I would add to that list is Eric Forsberg, only a lad but jeez he impressed me with his delivery speed when I watched him train late on the practice day.

John
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Loop Morph

#69

Post by Lasse Karlsson »



Eric Forsberg 🙂

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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: Loop Morph

#70

Post by Paul Arden »

Ah yes and Tor is another one. There are at least 50 guys who can win this event, all throwing very close. It’s just that I expect to see those guys throw their big casts and get in the finals more often than not.

Matt Howell is an awesome caster by the way.

Cheers, Paul
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