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Q: How does hauling work?

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flyfisher666
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Q: How does hauling work?

#1

Post by flyfisher666 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:19 pm

There are two main reasons for hauling.

* Distribution of work input between hands.
* Maximum total work input.

To keep it simple: Hauling adds linespeed directly to the line.
The effect on the rod is somewhat counterintuitive though.

In the distribution case of the hauled cast the rod hand does less work and therefor the rod bends less for the same linespeed.

In the max work input case it gets a bit complicated. As the rod hand can't bend the rod more (the rod hand is already at max force input), the rod is instead bent for a longer time/unbends slower when hauling. Maximum tipspeed is therefore actually slower in a hauled cast then in a nonhauled cast, but the direct increase in linespeed from the line hand when hauling is bigger then the loss in tipspeed.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Q: How does hauling work?

#2

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:56 pm

flyfisher666 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:19 pm
the rod is instead bent for a longer time/unbends slower when hauling. Maximum tipspeed is therefore actually slower in a hauled cast then in a nonhauled cast,
Hi ;)
That sounds interesting to me.
Hauled or not hauled cast, RSP 1 position always means no rod bend left. RSP1 happens in the same position, why I don't see how hauling lengthens time for the rod to reach RSP1.
I agree that hauling can flatten the tip path though.
Maybe someone can help me to understand the above?
Thanks
Bernd
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The first cast is always the best cast.

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Merlin
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Re: Q: How does hauling work?

#3

Post by Merlin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:04 pm

Hi Berndt

If you believe in usefulness of some models, here is an answer for a cast with and without haul (the cast input is inspired from Paul's 170).
There is very little difference in timing for RSP (4 milliseconds), and the tip speed for the hauled cast is higher by 2m/s. Incidentally MCL takes place 5ms later for the hauled cast, even if the haul is "late enough".

However the non hauled cast corresponds to the "quicker" return to RSP (by 4 ms as mentionned above). The hauled cast gives a 9m/s increase over the tip speed, for a haul max speed of 10 m/s.

All that appears to be in the same ballpark.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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flyfisher666
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Re: Q: How does hauling work?

#4

Post by flyfisher666 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:37 pm

Hi Bernd
Why would rsp have to be in the same position?
I agree it would be if the rod is stopped completely and immediately at the same position.

But the rod is not stopped completely and immediately.
The rod rotates a bit further after the "stop" in the hauled cast before it reaches rsp, because it takes longer time for it to unbend.

Well... That is what i would have answered before i read merlins reply anyway :p
According to Merlins modelled cast, tipspeed is higher for the hauled cast. Which contradicts what i think.
On the other hand it does predict that the rod reaches rsp a tad bit later in the hauled cast.



@Merlin - When does max haulspeed happen in that cast?

//Joakim

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Merlin
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Re: Q: How does hauling work?

#5

Post by Merlin » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:38 am

Joakim

Here is another comparison with what I expected to be a more sensitive case. The "hauled" situation corresponds to the limit of the tailing zone. It is rewarding in terms of speed but impossible to manage with sufficient precison. The "late haul" situation is safer, with a lower speed and you can see the difference in timing and time of recovery.
Haul comparison.JPG
Haul comparison.JPG (28.87 KiB) Viewed 763 times
It is still a question of a handful of ms. The late haul reduces maximum tip speed a little bit, and delays MCL. The time of recovery is longer as expected.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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