Danglin' line

[Stefano De Martini]

Hi everyone, I ask for help. Probably this problem has already been addressed i don't now... I often notice this dangling in slomo movies. It is an error which I still cannot find the cause of.
It is also something very common in the casts of others. In this frame it is very evident and I am even a little ashamed of it .
Sometimes more, sometimes less, but I often notice that. Both in BC and in FC. In my opinion it represents a big obstacle for the distance, but I have not yet understood where it comes from. May you give me any advice?
Thanks in advance

[Paul Arden]

Hi Stefano,

This is Bernd’s drawing above. I can’t find the correct page but lifted it from James’ FP here. https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/bdb

I think also it can come from a theoretical perfectly straight line if the tip then rises above the line as it always does in a 170 stroke.

Cheers, Paul

PS it’s “wavy”.

[Stefano De Martini]

Thanks Paul for the reply. I am familiar with these images of Bernd and I call them the "Gospel".
But I guess they don't exactly have to do with that problem. In the images the line eventually collapses when it has lost much of its energy. In this case the problem occurs when the energy involved is still a lot (maybe too much?) ... look, it happens to you too ...

[James9118]

Hi Stefano,

With big carries, such as with the MED, there is always going to be some sag and therefore the leader end of the fly line is always going to begin the forward cast on a downward trajectory. The (Bernd's) dangly bits that result is often going to hit the ground i.e. tick. The nature of the 'tick' and the resultant effect on the fly-line and delivery is going to be pretty unpredictable. Sometimes it may stall the loop, sometimes it will just look a bit messy but roll out ok.

Try changing the framing of your video slightly to look for the tick - it usually happens close to, but behind the caster.

Regards, James

[Paul Arden]

Even with a perfectly straight line you would need a perfectly straight tip path at the same or greater angle to the line to avoid it. On a 170 arc this appears to be completely impossible.

The way to avoid it is to cast with an open stance blocked backcast stroke, like Steve Rajeff, but then you sacrifice carry/ back cast speed.

Personally I think the 170 technique casts further with a long belly but you do have this dangling end problem.

With the resistance of a fly on the end the problem is far less apparent.

One thing that you can try doing is vertically lifting (upwards drift) to raise the angle of the line/position of the rod tip, before the start of the forward stroke. You can also send the backcast lower so that it straightens just above the ground.

Sag is obviously one cause but even if you eliminate it completely you still have the problem.

However as Lasse pointed out in another thread it’s not a problem in the backcast. So there may be a solution that I haven’t found yet.

Cheers, Paul

[Stefano De Martini]

Thanks guys for your comments. I have already tried to analyze the problem with several videos of mine and others and I am almost convinced, as you say, that the solution is not easy to find and that the cause is not unique but can be a series of contributing causes. For me it is certain that that shape of the flyline, at that point, induces a considerable increase in friction in the air and that, fixing this problem, would represent a little step forward.
Keep studying...cheers

[Graeme H]

"Ticking" the fluff will make the line stretch a little like a rubber band at that instant. The shape you've shown there is the result of the line rebounding after that stretching event, when the fly/fluff and leader can be going faster than the rest of the line. Drag on the fluff normally sorts it out during the cast.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Stefano De Martini]

Graeme I had no doubts that you would have given an explanation to the phenomenon. Indeed, this seems logical and explains the fact that the ending has more speed at this stage and almost steps further than the rest of the line.
THAT was what I couldn't understand.
Indeed, the friction on the fluff, as Paul and James said, often "fixes" the trajectory.
Thank you

[Lasse Karlsson]

"Ticking" the fluff will make the line stretch a little like a rubber band at that instant. The shape you've shown there is the result of the line rebounding after that stretching event, when the fly/fluff and leader can be going faster than the rest of the line. Drag on the fluff normally sorts it out during the cast.

Cheers,
Graeme

Graeme, the shape happens even when the fluff never ticks.
Only way I have found to minimize it, is better timing and smoother application of force, and higher line velocity..

Cheers
Lasse

[Graeme H]

"Ticking" the fluff will make the line stretch a little like a rubber band at that instant. The shape you've shown there is the result of the line rebounding after that stretching event, when the fly/fluff and leader can be going faster than the rest of the line. Drag on the fluff normally sorts it out during the cast.

Cheers,
Graeme

Graeme, the shape happens even when the fluff never ticks.
Only way I have found to minimize it, is better timing and smoother application of force, and higher line velocity..

Cheers
Lasse

Makes sense to me Lasse. If you can bounce the line with a rough cast, you also stretch it.