What is ultimate fly line weight for your fly rod? Or what is the ultimate fly rod for your line? The goal is distance.

[RSalar]

I know fly lines and rod flex/bend have been discussed a bunch here but I still have questions, like: What line weight in relation to the rod's flex will get the maximum distance cast possible in a fishing situation?

Let's say you are planning on fishing a big river; you will be wading; you will have the opportunity to catch sea run trout (2- 5lbs) and salmon (10 - 20 lbs) and you will be taking two rods--a five weight and nine weight (at least that's what is printed on the rods) and you want to determine what actual line weight and type of line you should be using to cast the farthest (so you can cover the most water). You will also be doing a lot of mending because you will be mostly swinging wet flies and streamers in all kinds or swirling currents.

The obvious answer is to experiment with different lines and line weights. But before you go out and buy several $100 lines, you want to understand what makes a certain line wt / rod combination work the best? Is there a formula or testing method that can be employed to determine the best line weight / shape, for a particular rod? How much should a rod bend to maximize line speed?

Thanks in advance,

Ron

[Graeme H]

Hi Ron,

There are a lot of factors to consider in the scenario you’ve presented. To cover them all, I would choose a DT line for each rod and go fishing.

Cheers,
Graeme

[RSalar]

Hi Ron,

There are a lot of factors to consider in the scenario you’ve presented. To cover them all, I would choose a DT line for each rod and go fishing.

Cheers,
Graeme

Hi Graeme,

I’ve been doing that for 50 years well not really. 50 years ago all I knew about was DT lines and I remember the big advantage was that you could flip them end for end to save money! Life was so much simpler back then. Put on a DT line and go fishin’ and that’s what we did — fun times. Unfortunately today there are at least a gazillion different fly lines — different tapers, different materials, different surface textures, different BS advertising. But it’s all good in my opinion — if you can afford it — buy a bunch and try them all.

I didn’t do a good job asking the original question. What I am driving at is something along the lines of: how much should the rod bend during a long distance cast? In other words we all know that the weight of the line increases the more of it that is being carried. I would think that the more line you are able to carry the lighter the line weight you should be casting. But I don’t have any idea if that is true. The heavier the line that is outside the rod tip - the more the rod is going to bend. What is the ultimate amount of bend? There must be an amount of bend that provides the most line speed. Can’t we use high speed photography to see the bend of the rod during the cast? Can’t we compare the bend of rods being used in competition and see how much the winner’s rods are bending?

Every fly rod must generate it’s most speed at a certain amount of bend. I would think ….

Cheers,

Ron

[Graeme H]

Hi Ron,

I'll refer you back to Lasse's videos of casting a 12wt line with a 3wt rod and similar videos to answer this iteration of the question. Basically, rod bend doesn't matter that much. The person making the cast is much more important than the rod used during the cast.

Unfortunately today there are at least a gazillion different fly lines — different tapers, different materials, different surface textures, different BS advertising.

Yep, there is a lot of BS in advertising ... It turns out that if you want a line that is extremely versatile, that DT you used for 50 years is hard to beat. The new tapers, materials, textures etc. are there to catch fishermen, not fish (most of the time).

My own preference is for the Spey-style of line with long front tapers. Not because they cast further, but because they are a lot of fun to use. I can easily overhead cast them as far as I want, but in close and when making spey and roll casts, they respond very well. What they won't do well is mend nicely if there is significant running line outside the tip, so I didn't suggest them as an answer to your first question.

No, for me, the line that covers all the things you first talked of is the DT.

I would think that the more line you are able to carry the lighter the line weight you should be casting.

No, not really. Not in my opinion. If the ONLY aim is distance, then yes, perhaps. However, I don't want to fish a HT10 using a 6wt line. That's fine for casting 130', but I don't need to cast that far when fishing very often and a HT6 with a 6wt line is more fun to fish. Who cares if I can only cast 115' with that setup? Not me.

Cheers,
Graeme

[VGB]

It depends on what "best" means. I once took a #9 BFK TFO on a chalkstream by mistake that was paired with #4 GT90 long belly line. It may have been a better distance option than the #4 ZXL that I had planned to take but as a fishing experience making lots of casts throughout the day wasn't pleasant. I had one forearm like Popeye after a couple of hours, the other was like Olive Oyl.

Regards

Vince

[Merlin]

Hi Ron

Is there a formula or testing method that can be employed to determine the best line weight / shape, for a particular rod?

A (magic) formula no, testing methods yes. They are based on rod stiffness measurements: the stiffer the rod is, the higher the line number is. Now there can be endless discussions about the level of rod stiffness for a given line size.

For line shape this is a different story, I think the most “all purpose” line is the DT. In your example I would take only one rod, #8 for example if you intend to cast for a rather long time during the day. In fact it depends on the size of flies you intend to use and the probability to catch a big fish. I would discard a #5 rod/line outfit.

There is no “all in one” rod IMHO, you have to find a compromise between distance (tip action) and mending capability (butt action). A good old rule of the thumb: fish size, then fly size, then line size, then rod.

How much should a rod bend to maximize line speed?

It should bend as much as possible but being as stiff as possible as well, if you can avoid injuring your joints with it. The bending amount is linked to maximum rotation speed during the cast, the stiffer the rod is, the heavier it is and the more difficult it is to rotate, so everyone has his own limits. It is more comfortable to choose a lighter/softer rod which will bend further by comparison to a heavier/stiffer rod which will be a pain to cast. So Superman has a great casting potential.

Merlin

[RSalar]

How much should a rod bend to maximize line speed?

It should bend as much as possible but being as stiff as possible as well, if you can avoid injuring your joints with it. The bending amount is linked to maximum rotation speed during the cast, the stiffer the rod is, the heavier it is and the more difficult it is to rotate, so everyone has his own limits. It is more comfortable to choose a lighter/softer rod which will bend further by comparison to a heavier/stiffer rod which will be a pain to cast. So Superman has a great casting potential.

Merlin

Hi Merlin -- that makes sense. Everyone is different; they have different amounts of strength, and they have different muscle speed, and they have different techniques. With all that taken into consideration there must be an ultimate rod bend for that particular person's cast. In other other words just like golfers use different stiffness golf club shafts in order to optimize the shaft stiffness to their their swing speed to get the fasted head speed possible. A powerful caster should need a stiffer fly rod than a weaker one

Cheers,

Ron

[RSalar]

Hi Ron,

I'll refer you back to Lasse's videos of casting a 12wt line with a 3wt rod and similar videos to answer this iteration of the question. Basically, rod bend doesn't matter that much. The person making the cast is much more important than the rod used during the cast.

Cheers,
Graeme

Hi Graeme -- so you think that you can use a 3 wt rod to cast a 12wt line just as far as you could with a 12wt rod?

I'd love to see it!

--Ron

[VGB]

In other other words just like golfers use different stiffness golf club shafts in order to optimize the shaft stiffness to their their swing speed to get the fasted head speed possible. A powerful caster should need a stiffer fly rod than a weaker one

Hi Ron

Do golfers only use one swing speed?

Regards

Vince

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Ron,

I'll refer you back to Lasse's videos of casting a 12wt line with a 3wt rod and similar videos to answer this iteration of the question. Basically, rod bend doesn't matter that much. The person making the cast is much more important than the rod used during the cast.

Cheers,
Graeme

Hi Graeme -- so you think that you can use a 3 wt rod to cast a 12wt line just as far as you could with a 12wt rod?

I'd love to see it!

--Ron

Thats not what Graeme was talking about

But out of interest, how much further do you think I can throw that 12(13) weight line on a rod that says 12 as opposed to a rod that says 5? Or 4, can't do 3 as I haven't got a 9 foot rod someone wrote 3 on. The stiffer rod is a better lever and should give me more line velocity as such, but the line is really the turning point, not the stick...



Cheers
Lasse