Causes of tailing loops

[VGB]

No worries Graeme. Where I struggle with the trapped wave style theories is what mechanism regulates the wave speed such that they stay in place. I’ve had a couple of ideas but none of them stood up to much scrutiny when rubbed up against the real world.

Good luck for your assessment

Regards

Vince

[Paul Arden]

Wrinkles are another example of a dragon travelling from loop front to fly under tension. Otherwise they would fly around the loop and appear in the rod leg.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Love this talk of things going around the loop, next someone is going to say the anchor loads the rod too

Cheers
Lasse

[James9118]

I know he’s very much focused upon angular momentum.

Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul,

I wouldn't say I'm 'very much focussed on angular momentum' - I've mentioned it quite a bit in the past because it's often overlooked as something that needs to be considered, along with other aspects. I certainly think that certain observations that casters agree upon (and see routinely) can be explained, in part, by looking at the angular momentum.

It's clear to me from some comments that tension in a dynamic situation is not well understood, as Gordy states above. The conditions in the rod leg and the fly leg are very different and waves (if you want to call them that) will act differently according to whether they're put into one or the other.

James.

[Paul Arden]

Thanks James. Would you call them waves?

Cheers, Paul

[James9118]

Thanks James. Would you call them waves?

Cheers, Paul

I'll go along with the consensus choice - it's only a name to me. If you're looking at simple 'classical' physic's definitions then an aerial mend in the rod leg clearly meets the 'wave' criteria and can be described in simple mathematical terms. Other disturbances, in other parts of the line, are less easily pigeon holed. The tension profile in the fly-leg is much more complex (and more variable) than the rod-leg, but I'm ok with a 'tail' being described as a wave whilst being aware of these tension complexities that will have a big affect on its propagation.

Cheers, James

[Paul Arden]

I personally prefer the term “dragon”. While the term is in use to describe a large mythical fire-breathing flying monster, it’s unlikely that anyone in their right mind would confuse that with a tailing loop. Wave just has too many other meanings.

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Gentlemen,

I respectfully appreciate your willingness to educate me on my misunderstanding about tension in the legs. Once again I was befuddled by the "simplifying assumptions" inherent in my basic physics education.

This time it was in assuming a massless string, which is very similar to previous things like a massless spring, frictionless surface, perfectly spherical chicken, etc.

However, I am still unclear as to the difference between an early tail and a late one.

[James9118]

Hi Gary,

A late tail is one that 'appears' near, or in the leader of the cast. This is caused by a force application error early in the casting stroke (so what we describe as 'late' tails are in fact caused by an early error). Perhaps think about the rod tip speed - right at the start of the stroke the tip speed is low - thus any deviation in the lines direction from the intended (forward) one is also slow. Therefore the 'dip' or 'wave' or whatever you want to call it grows slowly and only intersects the rod leg late in the cast, by which time it has propagated down to near or in the leader.

Conversely an early tail appears near the rod tip. This is caused by a late error in the casting stroke (these are often the obvious tails that are performed when someone is asked to demonstrate a tailing loop). Because the rod tip is moving fast at the end of the stroke an error here also deviates the line at a high speed. Therefore the resultant dip/wave intersects with the rod leg faster, hence giving an early tail. (So an early tail is caused by a late error).

The observation that the amplitude of the tail grows comes from the complexity of the tension in the rod leg by the way - mends don't grow in the fly leg.

Hope that helps, James

[Torsten]

I vote for "flying elephant".

I personally prefer the term “dragon”. While the term is in use to describe a large mythical fire-breathing flying monster, it’s unlikely that anyone in their right mind would confuse that with a tailing loop. Wave just has too many other meanings.