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Climate Change

Forum for discussing fisheries conservation and other environmental issues related to fish, wildlife, watersheds, and aquatic ecosystems.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#11

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm

Still if we jump back to the core topic, I don’t think that people have been manipulated to disbelieve the reality of climate change. Rather I think that they’ve made a choice. That they then repost lies or manipulated facts to support their opinion, well that is in itself very interesting! I suppose that they have become part of a propaganda machine by attempting to bolster their position in their minds.

What I hadn’t fully considered is actually there is money in this. It’s not just propaganda, it’s also about commission from advertising for producing viral content. That’s actually quite an eye opener and raises a bigger problem since it’s the exaggerated content that often gets the most attention.

It will be interesting to look back in History of this time!

Cheers, Paul
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Graeme H
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Re: Climate Change

#12

Post by Graeme H » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:55 pm

Cool. Not sure why they were hanging up for you.
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Torsten
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Re: Climate Change

#13

Post by Torsten » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:17 pm

This is a hot topic in Germany .. I think the "climate change" was once called global warming - at least I learned this at school in the early 90ies. Now it's for some people a sort of religion. Sure, most scientist agree, that the warming is related to the human made CO2 increase. But there is no agreement about the consequences. Basically we can see two extreme groups: climate deniers and climate alarmists. I sit myself somewhere in the middle, yes - human made global warming, but the apocalyptic visions seem unrealistic to me.

I like the writings of Hans von Storch, see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Storch

or the Spiegel article "How Global Warming Research is Creating a Climate of Fear"
https://www.spiegel.de/international/sp ... 42376.html

"Totally unbiased news" are difficult to find - I'm usually checking raw data and read scientific papers, don't like Facebook or Youtube for serious information.

Limpe Iven
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Re: Climate Change

#14

Post by Limpe Iven » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:59 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm
Still if we jump back to the core topic, I don’t think that people have been manipulated to disbelieve the reality of climate change. Rather I think that they’ve made a choice. That they then repost lies or manipulated facts to support their opinion, well that is in itself very interesting! I suppose that they have become part of a propaganda machine by attempting to bolster their position in their minds.

What I hadn’t fully considered is actually there is money in this. It’s not just propaganda, it’s also about commission from advertising for producing viral content. That’s actually quite an eye opener and raises a bigger problem since it’s the exaggerated content that often gets the most attention.



Cheers, Paul
I guess that the money matter works both ways, money from viral content, huge propaganda traffic as a result by stating the plans of the government wich are touching man's wallet directly. Bingo.
Over here, new houses that are being build cannot have a connection to the well known natural gas supply since july 2018,resulting in alternative methods of heating houses and water, preparing dinner, will boost sales on solar panels, heat pumps and so on.
Maximum speed on higways are reduced during the weekdays and peak-hours (man, that was good for a s**tstorm of negativity)
Extra tax on older cars.
Wouldn't be a bit surprised if the rates for excisting natural gas connections will go up in the very near future.

Just to name a few that will feed the negativity and when advertised right will indeed support that way of thinking.

It takes a degree of common sense that some "desperate measures" are needed and not everyone has the ability (or the funds) to adapt, especially if its imposed by the government (wich over here-is under constant fire by the keyboard warriors, i won't go there..), the properly marketed propganda will feed the rebellious way of thinking..

It's amazing how the internet (or some webpages) work, on a news-site frontpage i read about global warming, directly below is an add that's trying to sell plane tickets for a weekend to Barcelona for 16 euro's...... (no, i have not been searching for cheap tickets nor googled anything Spain related :laugh: )

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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#15

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:55 am

Unfortunately I do have some somewhat apocalyptic visions. One is crop failures in parts of the world leading to conflict and mass migration. We had a lot of problems with 1 million migrants coming to Europe. I think that’s nothing on the scale of what could happen. Whichever way you look at that, it doesn’t look very peaceful.

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Graeme H
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Re: Climate Change

#16

Post by Graeme H » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:06 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:55 am
Unfortunately I do have some somewhat apocalyptic visions. One is crop failures in parts of the world leading to conflict and mass migration. We had a lot of problems with 1 million migrants coming to Europe. I think that’s nothing on the scale of what could happen.
I absolutely agree Paul. (I think we may have even discussed this when we camped out on one of your remote islands ... :) )

There are quite a few people who directly attribute the European migration of those people to the "Arab Spring". Some research* suggests the Arab Spring was exacerbated by drought in Russia, Ukraine, China and Argentina where much of the grain for bread sold in north Africa should have come from. The increased the price of grain added fuel to the political unrest.

What will happen when a couple of billion people find it difficult to pay for their staple foods? Or worse still, are unable to find that food for ANY price?

Cheers,
Graeme

* https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ab-spring/
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Re: Climate Change

#17

Post by Geenomad » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:41 am

In Australia 29 former fire and emergency chiefs formed a group called Emergency Leaders for Climate Action. Australia has 8 states and territories which handle fire and emergency services.These folks generally eschew anything to do with political activism. They are speaking up because the incumbents cannot. The existence and size of the group should tell you something.

They warned back in April that Australia was unprepared for the threat of climate change. The current bushfire season is unprecedented in where, when and to what extent bushfires are burning. Last time I looked 5 million hectares had been burned and many fires remain uncontrolled. That's 50,000 square kilometres. Pick a country and compare. England is 130.4k square kilometres.

It is no longer a question of what could happen but of what is happening and what will happen. Any talk of alarmism is just another cut at avoidance imnsho. Anyone who isn't alarmed by the consequences of anthropogenic global warming needs to justify their position, not the other way around. Anyone who thinks their part of the planet will be spared is dreaming.

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Mark
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Graeme H
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Re: Climate Change

#18

Post by Graeme H » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:26 pm

^^^
And I love how the pollies always say "now is not the time to talk about this", regardless of when it is brought up. In April, it was not the time because there were no fires burning. Now is not the time because so many people have just lost their homes and some, their lives.

It seems that there is never a time that suits the pollies ....
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Torsten
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Re: Climate Change

#19

Post by Torsten » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:18 pm

Graeme H wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:06 am
There are quite a few people who directly attribute the European migration of those people to the "Arab Spring". Some research* suggests the Arab Spring was exacerbated by drought in Russia, Ukraine, China and Argentina where much of the grain for bread sold in north Africa should have come from. The increased the price of grain added fuel to the political unrest.
This was once in media here, there is actually an official statement from German climate scientists:
http://www.deutsches-klima-konsortium.d ... ration.pdf
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/nat ... 77461.html
(They disagree and see climate change as one factor of many only)

"[..] Blaming climate change for Syria's problems distracts from the real problems that cause drought and hunger, explained Francesca De Châtel, Syria expert at Radboud University in Nijmegen.[..]"

"[..] The German Climate Consortium now reports that droughts have become more frequent in Africa over the last 60 years. However, the influence of climate change on the risk of drought "cannot be proven to be statistically significant", says Paul Becker, climate expert of the German Weather Service. Rainfall levels fluctuated too much to be able to identify unnatural signals. [..]"
What will happen when a couple of billion people find it difficult to pay for their staple foods? Or worse still, are unable to find that food for ANY price?
Today a lot of food is wasted .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_waste

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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#20

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:14 am

Here is the result of another study, Torsten;
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... ing-threat
“Essentially we have found that both ends of Africa’s weather extremes will get more severe,” said Elizabeth Kendon of the Met Office’s Hadley Centre in Exeter. “The wet extreme will get worse, but also the appearance of dry spells during the growing season will also get more severe.”
Personally I think that the Syrian problems were more a result of the vacuum left after the US invasion of Iraq.

Cheers, Paul
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