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Squeezing fish for the pic

Forum for discussing fisheries conservation and other environmental issues related to fish, wildlife, watersheds, and aquatic ecosystems.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#21

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:57 pm

Just imagine if every bonefish you’ve seen held has died within three weeks.
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#22

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:52 pm

Definetly not a nice thought!

But I'd like to know more about the test, was that tiny pen used for 160 bonefish at the same time? How was the no handling done? How was the handling done?

Right at the face of it, its a great sell for no gill net fishing for a valuable ressource and a great sell for having to use someone to "handle" the fish...

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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#23

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:14 pm

That’s why we need to get in touch with the author. Another question I would have would be how how were the fish handled that were tagged without handling?

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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#24

Post by Jonathan » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:37 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:14 pm
Another question I would have would be how how were the fish handled that were tagged without handling?
"4 Caught with fly rod, handled with plastic protection and tagged" says the presentation.

Your bare hands appear to do much of the damage. Many years ago (when I was still fishing on the dark side) we never handled a live marlin bait with bare hands, as your hands left visible marks on the fish.
Either use gloves or a Moana Kofe hook release when releasing bonefish (although the pictures on the MKHR are often not too impressive :laugh: ).
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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#25

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:32 pm

I suspect a bit of bias in this "data".

There is an organization here in South Florida... "The Bonefish and Tarpon Trust"... aka "BTT".

They are a nonprofit scientific/ environmental organization dedicated to studying said species, with the goal of protecting and, if possible, improving their stocks. Likely, with the same underlying but unspoken goal of protecting the business interests hinging on those stocks.

I believe BTT's data shows quite different results, as in that well-handled or tagged bonefish have a very high survival rate. Granted, there is no (legal) gill netting of bonefish in Florida, nor any inshore netting what so ever. So, it is not exactly apples to apples.

I will say the photos of the tagged bonefish looked like a horror show. Were they tagging the fish or beginning to fillet them??? The tagging of a fish, at least what I have seen, requires little more than a large needle to be inserted near the dorsal fin.

Might their tagging technique have had an effect on the outcome? Their admitted observations of the wounds would seem to indicate as much.
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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#26

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:59 am

I’d have some other questions such as were the hands clean and wet. Still it’s a pretty staggering result to have them all die. Would most definitely mean that anglers need wear gloves to protect them. And then there would need to be studies as to which material is best. It would be an excellent case for some sort of rubber net.

Hard to believe this study was conducted 13 years ago and this is the first time I’ve read it. I would love to see one f those other studies, Gary.

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Will
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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#27

Post by Will » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:45 pm

Yep, more info definitely needed.

I remember talking to Mike Ladle about Mackerel years ago. He was asked to catch some fish for the local sea aquarium (rod & line).

He said that the only way he could get the transferred fish to survive long term was to not touch them at all.
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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#28

Post by Jonathan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:04 pm

There are more studies as a quick google will show (not my field of expertise). Some relate only to a relatively short period (and deal in part with predator fatality after release - which was removed from the equation in Yeeting's study), but some are more similar.
https://www3.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/FME ... 202007.pdf
I do find it interesting how differing interest groups are connected to various studies. I suppose we all tend to rely on the one that suits our personal beliefs and interests.
Will wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:45 pm
He said that the only way he could get the transferred fish to survive long term was to not touch them at all.
IMHO from a catch and release aspect the most important conclusion in the paper.
In short I have not stopped catch and release (in the interest of fish survival) but I have stopped touching the fish (almost entirely, even with clean wet hands) during release.

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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#29

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:31 am

Which gloves do you use, Jonathan?

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Re: Squeezing fish for the pic

#30

Post by Jonathan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:45 pm

I very seldom use gloves particularly for the purpose Paul, although I do generally fish in gloves (at my age skin cancer is a concern).
For smaller fish (most of what I catch) such as bonefish I use a Moana Kofe hook release which I first saw (and purchased from the late Moana) on Kiritimati some years ago. Not not easy to get in Australia. Pretty useless for photos but if the fish is mouth hooked (certainly with a barbless hook which I generally use) it has a 100 % success rate and you can use it without really removing the fish from the water. I got my more recent ones from Gavin at Tie'n'Fly, and they come in two sizes.
https://www.tienfly.com/store/p341/Moan ... _-Out.html
For usage (rather than me try to explain) see
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2649/ ... E_TOOL.pdf
They work really well, although with a deeply hooked fish (bonefish on fly, in my experience anyway, are almost never deeply hooked) I may on occasions have to resort to touching, but at least with ordinary fishing gloves (those with no finger tips) and try to limit skin contact.
Jon

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