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Climate Change

Forum for discussing fisheries conservation and other environmental issues related to fish, wildlife, watersheds, and aquatic ecosystems.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Climate Change

#31

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Paul Arden wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:20 pm I find it ironic that the root cause of our problems - overpopulation - is driven by a need to pass on our genes lest we become extinct :D

Cheers, Paul
Really, that's the root cause as you see it?

If the one billion megapoluters had the same carbon footprint as the remaining 6 there wouldn't be a problem...

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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#32

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Yes I see it as the root cause and as less industrialised nations become more industrialised the problem will be worse.

https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing- ... -emissions
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Climate Change

#33

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ons%22.png

Usually when the undeveloped turn developed, population growth stagnated, and in several cases turn negative. One underlying reason the developed countries score lower in your graph is because alot of their emissions are done by others..

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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#34

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https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/pro ... y/climate/

Of course you can find anything on the Internet but..
People around the world are beginning to address the problem by reducing their carbon footprint through less consumption and better technology. But unsustainable human population growth can overwhelm those efforts, leading us to conclude that we not only need smaller footprints, but fewer feet.
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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#35

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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#36

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A global population of about 1.5 billion is thought to be optimal... https://news.stanford.edu/pr/94/940711Arc4189.html

Anyway we are way past that point. And as Graeme writes I’m sure that it will take some catastrophe to get us back to that point. If we all went back to living in the jungle it wouldn’t support us anyway :laugh: We’ve almost wiped out the jungle even not living there.

Mostly we live like battery caged hens.

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Graeme H
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Re: Climate Change

#37

Post by Graeme H »

Paul Arden wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:02 pm Here is another https://populationmatters.org/the-facts/climate-change
It's a sad thing, but I can now easily pick how obsolete the CO2 graphs are by the maximum value shown. We consistently add 3 ppm per year, so without even reading the title, we can tell it was from 11 or 12 years ago. :(
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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#38

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When I look at this subject I don’t just see Climate Change; I see plastic in oceans, forests turned into farmland, jungle turned into palm plantations, the continual sprawl of cities into the countryside, water shortages, an increasingly large global population of about half of which eat meat and the massive strain that puts on the planet, the massive decline of fish numbers and the virtual collapse of fisheries, the extinction of habitat and even the very existence of very many other species...

It’s not just the way we live; it’s the massive numbers of us. In my short lifetime of almost 50 years we have more than doubled in population! Yes we are the root problem :laugh:
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Graeme H
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Re: Climate Change

#39

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With (apparently) unlimited resources, the doubling of a population at regular intervals is called an exponential growth rate. It happens in many types of animals/plants/bacteria/fungus etc. For humans over the last 200 years, that interval is about 40 years. That is, if you look at the population at any point over the last ~200 years, you'll see it double 40 years later.

Two interesting things about this growth rate:
  • There is a population crash once the resources are mostly used up.
  • The penultimate generation experiences life as idillic.
The second last generation sees lots of resources available, but 40 years later, when there are twice as many humans competing for the remaining resources, things get nasty.

How do we regulate human population growth? Is anybody proposing some population limiting strategy? I haven't seen it yet. What does this place look like in 40 years? 80 years?

Graeme
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Paul Arden
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Re: Climate Change

#40

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I think if people spent more time with children before having any then they wouldn’t have them. :p

I read an interesting book recently that links large families to poorer incomes. For example in parts of Africa the average number of children per family might be 7 or 8. However when families get out of poverty and have a certain degree of wealth that drops to around 2. And it’s because we have “almost” eliminated severe poverty that the population is expected to peak somewhere between 10 and 12 billion. (There are about 1 billion people living in such poverty).

Now I seriously wonder about this. The optimal population level for the planet may be 1-2 billion. I was born when it was about 3.5. Now it’s over 7. It’s projected to reach 10-12 billion. I think it’s just one of those things that’s put in the “too hard basket”.

China had restrictions of one child families. Obviously there are some drawbacks.

The world is just not set up in a way to control the population numbers. I think we’ve been incredibly lucky to have had the life and opportunities we have had. The future does not look rosy at all.

Cheers, Paul
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