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Barbes vs barbless

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johnnybg
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Location: Denmark

Re: Barbes vs barbless

#21

Post by johnnybg » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:43 pm

Unfortunately, the trend here in Denmark - at least the part of the country where I live - is fishing with barbed hooks. The exception to this is the salmon rivers where barbs are banned by law.

What made me start the thread, was a discussion on the topic in the comment section on one of the Sexyloops Youtube videos.

People I fish with think that I've was dropped on the head as a baby when I started considering barbless hooks.. That's where we are right now. I guess focus on the benefits for both fisherman and fish (especially fisherman benefits) is what might start a paradigm shift towards fishing barbless hooks.

What caused the shift in countries/areas were barbless hooks are predominantly used today?

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Paul Arden
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#22

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:59 am

Yep I’d love to hear about your experiments with circle hooks, Gary. I’ve never used them. I did however try “grub” hooks for about a week and promptly gave them up. Davy Wotton told me that he went further than that and had one side of the boat fishing these curved shank hooks and the other side normal straight shanked hooks and with two golf shot counters he counted the number of fish lost each side of the boat. From that he determined that curved hooks were crap :D This story however made me want to become a guide again. :cool:

How has it changed, Johnny? Regulations is certainly a part of it. Education too I suppose. I thought the shift had come in with C&R. Certainly if that’s you game, which it should be, then it makes sense. I personally would like to see a complete end of barbed hooks being manufactured. But I’m pretty sure that’s not going to happen in my lifetime!

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#23

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:59 am

And yes I should follow up on that YouTube conversation. Can you remember which video it was? Thanks!
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johnnybg
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#24

Post by johnnybg » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:37 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:59 am
And yes I should follow up on that YouTube conversation. Can you remember which video it was? Thanks!
This one Paul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3MpWzWtKAo&t=60s the Safety video

queenfish
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#25

Post by queenfish » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:58 pm

[[Anyone want to discuss the use of circle hooks in flies? I did some experiments with them too... and personally do not use them today. But I know others who do,and swear there are advantages to circle hooks in certain conditions that I seldom encounter, but apparently some others on SL do.]]

I tried circle hooks for tarpon for experiment, the hook up rate dropped from 10 to one, you have to have nerve of steel not to strike when you feel the bite.
so that was enough to convince me not to use circle hooks for fly fishing.

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Graeme H
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#26

Post by Graeme H » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:48 pm

I've found circle hooks useful only on flies intended to be fished in situations where I lose contact with the fly. For example, a dead drift down through a school of fish that are known not to hit a moving fly.

In any situation where I maintain contact with the fly, they have failed me repeatedly.

I don't tie flies on them any more. A normal hook works in both situations.

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Graeme
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Paul Arden
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#27

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:56 pm

johnnybg wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:37 pm
Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:59 am
And yes I should follow up on that YouTube conversation. Can you remember which video it was? Thanks!
This one Paul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3MpWzWtKAo&t=60s the Safety video
Thanks mate! Have followed it up to see how he fared.

Cheers, Paul :cool:
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#28

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:48 pm

Fascinating Gary - thanks!
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... hook-logic

I can see I’m going to have to try them now. Sometimes it doesn’t seem to matter how you strike on Snakehead; they always spit the hook. It will be interesting to try this as an alternative.

Cheers, Paul
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Torsten
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#29

Post by Torsten » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:32 pm

Hi Paul,

a few studies about this subject:

Effect of Hook Type on Mortality, Trauma, and Capture Efficiency of Wild Stream Trout Caught by Angling with Spinners
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... h_Spinners
"Barbless single hooks were quicker to remove than the other hook types, but the difference was insufficient to reduce mortality. Our results do not indicate a biological advantage with the use of single- or barbless-hook spinners when caught wild stream trout will be released."

Barbed Hook Restrictions in Catch-and-Release Trout Fisheries: A Social Issue
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Da ... -Issue.pdf
"Because natural mortality rates for wild trout in streams commonly range from 30% to 65% annually, a 0.3% mean difference in hooking mortality for the two hook types is irrelevant at the population level, even when fish are subjected to repeated capture. Based on existing mortality studies, there is no biological basis for barbed hook restrictions in artificial fly and lure fisheries for resident trout."

Effects of hook size and barbless hooks on hooking injury, catch per unit effort, and fish size in a mixed-species recreational fishery in the western Mediterranean Sea
https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/articl ... 899/602201
"Results showed a drastic decrease in cpue with barbless hooks. In contrast, large hooks reduced the incidence of hooking injuries, with a small reduction in catch rate."

The influence of hook type, angler experience, and fish size on injury rates and the duration of capture in an Alaskan catch-and-release rainbow trout fishery
https://alaska.usgs.gov/products/pubs/2 ... JFM_24.pdf
The results of this study indicate that the use of barbless J hooks may minimize injury and reduce
the amount of time fish are handled during hook removal and that angler experience can contribute
to hooking injury. Because injury rates were high, regardless of hook type, and may be influenced by
angler experience, it is difficult to estimate if a barbed-hook restriction would reduce overall injury
rates in angled fish. However, a slight reduction in hooking injuries and less handling time are
two important benefits to consider in support of a regulation change or promotion of angler education
programs for catch-and-release trout fisheries with heavy angling pressure and high injury rates.

--

Circle hooks show indeed a smaller mortality in these studies. The idea of the circle hook is to reduce the deep hooking probability. They work especially well for bait fishing. I'm using these hooks for flatfish like flounder & co. I think they're popular for commercial long line fishing too.

Another alternative is to fish hookless - if you want to reduce the mortality under 1% :) :

OUTDOORS; Hookless Fly-Fishing Is a Humane Advance
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/07/spor ... vance.html

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Will
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Re: Barbes vs barbless

#30

Post by Will » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:58 pm

This one is interesting as it covers impacts on reproduction of poor handling.

http://online.fliphtml5.com/xjqqa/fmsu/#p=8

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