Any swingers?

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

No... not that kind!


I am looking for some tips or references on how to fish good size streamers deep and in moderate current. By good size I mean around 5 inches (12.5 cm) and by moderate I mean up to around 10 mph (16 km/h). Depth is 6 - 10 feet.

I know there is a bunch of info on Skagit techniques in the NW US, but that is not really how I want to go about it. First off, I will definitely be using a single hand rod and I will not be wading. Overhead casts will be the norm and do not need to be very long… 50’ (15 m) would probably be max. And, I am hoping to avoid using a shooting head – I have started with a 350 gr sink tip SA Mastery Tropic Express on a 10 wt rod.

The fish will be down stream from where my anchor sits in the same depth, and the fish will be facing up current. I expect I will be casting at angles quartering downstream or less, and have considered almost dead downstream.

Sinking line fishing is pretty rare around here except out in the blue where the boat is commonly free floating, and line belly or dragging is almost nonexistent, so getting some depth out there is not much of an issue. It’s the current lately that is causing me problems.

I am hoping for some expert advice from other parts of the globe, where, you know, sinking line techniques are more advanced!

[Graeme H]

I fish like this fairly often. Anchor in a current and drift a fly to the fish, but I must admit I normally use floating/intermediate lines with long FC leaders for this work. Most of our "flats" are in water that is 6 to 15' deep. (Rio Flats Pro Stealth is perfect.)

I cast "upstream" and put a mend (or curve, if I can) into the cast. A collapsed cast has use too, allowing the fly and leader to sink quickly without needing to pull the line with it. I will also feed a lot of slack into the water soon after it lands if it's particularly deep.

The trick is to get the fly downstream of the line itself. I don't think you'll necessarily need a sinking line, but that will depend on what you need to do with the fly to entice the bite.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Thanks Graeme,

Upstream / long leader / floating line is opposite of what I have been trying...but luckily that is about how another of my rods are set up. I can try both and see what happens.

Actually, that is a big part of my problem... the waters I fish are essentially opaque, so I can't see what is going on. I have to rely on the unseen fish to communicate their approval.

Can you see the fly where you fish? At what point does the drift and sink stop and working the fly begin... 90 degrees?

[Paul Arden]

I haven’t fished this combination Gary. I’ve fished flies of this size, and also I fished this depth of fast water - both for trout. But a big fly of this size, down deep, I haven’t done sufficiently regularly to give any great insights. However to give you my thoughts anyway: I would first tackle it with a very heavy fly. Getting a sinking line to pull a fly down, is either going to be ugly or you will need plenty of downstream water with which to play. A heavy fly on the other hand can be dropped through quite fast water, especially if you can mend before touchdown and afterwards.

So that leads me to the only useful observation I might be able to make. When casting a heavy fly (I’m assuming a weighted sock?) then the loop is not carrying the fly, the loop is carrying the loop, and the fly has its own trajectory and momentum. If anything the fly line is a hindrance; many of these big flies will cast further without it. Really heavy flies is a bit like French Nymphing with Streamers, damned close to spinner fishing. I have done this regularly and it feels (and looks, to me at any rate) like taking a dog for a walk.

If you can’t see your fly then I would recommend casting and playing somewhere where you can see your fly, in order to understand how it sinks and swims. I’ve regularly fished 4-5 inch rabbits for trout, both in NZ but also chalkstreams.

What I do find, is that it is very important to drift the backcast so that the forward cast starts with the rod pointing directly at the fly, ditto prior to backcast. It’s a bit like 180 casting but drifting flat to get there. Then it is quite possible to cast a leaded sock on a 4WT line - as an extreme example. If you are not getting the distance then try lengthening the leader! If won’t appeal to fly line loop purists, but they are probably fishing dry flies anyway.

Your other option is a HiD/ lead core shooting head with a short leader. If it’s important to keep the fly on a level swim then you may have no other choice. If this is the route you must take, then welding some lines together might be the better option.

Cheers
Paul

[Graeme H]

Can you see the fly where you fish? At what point does the drift and sink stop and working the fly begin... 90 degrees?

Sometimes, but the fly line is the indicator of the take, not seeing the fly disappear.

The question about when the sink stops is a good one. I can't really answer it, but I know that if I start adding tension, the fly will rise through the water column. I use that (and feeding more line into the drift) to play with the fly action.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

I imagine that you will have fast current at the top and slow at the bottom. It’s an interesting challenge!

Cheers, Paul

[Sash]

I think you are already fishing the correct line/rod combination: its my go-to combination for [European Sea] Bass here in Wales, both in the surf (typically with a vicious rip), and off a boat in tidal races.
A 350gr head will get down 10-15 ft relatively quickly and easily.
My advice would be to shorten your leader to 3-4 ft only: makes the cast easier, and means the fly will be (more or less) on the same level as the tip of the line/head.
Then concentrate on where to cast relative to where you think the fish are lying: a 350-grain head should sink 6-7 IPS in still water, but I would assume half this in a 10-kt current.
So you are going to need to cast far enough upstream/across that you can let the head sink for 20-30 seconds: countdown, if only out loud, REALLY works!