Shallow water strategy - Help breaking the code

[johnnybg]

2 years ago I moved to a new area in Denmark. To get to my old home waters is around 3 hours by car, so I thought it made sense to start exploring the local streams and lakes.

Due to some random circumstances one day I was talking to a landowner of a small lake close by. It is 1 km (.6 miles) wide and 4 km (2.5 Miles) long and a well know and very productive trout stream runs through the lake. The landowner confirmed that it was loaded with brown trout and that I had his permission to fish his land.
Obviously, I was very very eager to get started. However, the past 2 years I’ve simply failed to break the code with the fly rod. The lake is very shallow. Average depth is half a meter (1.5’) Max depth that I have seen is just above 1 meter or 3’ of water and the water is normally very clear.

Now to the challenge:
We are a total of 4 guys fishing in the small lake. All are fly fishers but 2 guys, due to shoulder problems, also use the spinning rod with a lure but most common with a bombarda float (https://www.go-fishing.dk/wp-content/up ... /1589b.jpg) with a 9’ leader and an unweighted size 6 goby fly (Brenda's mom https://www.go-fishing.dk/wp-content/up ... 00x800.jpg) - that is very popular fly used in the salty and brackish Danish fjords.
This is an absolute killer combination!
However, with the fly rod and the same fly, the take and hookup rate fall to less than 5% of that of the spinning rod with a float and fly. That’s significant in my world and I have not been able to change it the past 2 years. It’s driving my crazy. It’s no fun using the spinning rod but none of us have been able to break the code with the fly rod.

It’s not sight fishing in the lake. Even though the water is crystal clear the trouts are so well camouflaged on the brown and weed covered bottom that we almost never see them unless they are active on the surface and that is very rare. They can be close to the shore and in the middle of the lake. We have failed in finding a pattern in where they are. So, we’re simply covering a lot of water and making lots of casts to find them and since the spinning rod offers more than double the casting length of that of the flyrod that might be a big factor. The fly line also seems to spook the trout. I’ve scared quite a few fish with the fly line. I always try to present the fly before the fly line by placing frequent casts parallel to the shore line and in the direction I wade. But still i manage to spook a lot more fish here that i do when practicing the same fishing in the fjords and on the open coast. I’ve used dry flies (foam beetles), wet flies, floating lines, hovering lines all in difference colors but it seems to be when the fly line belly lands on the surface (even gently) that the trout 1’ below in the water column is spooked.

Should I just give up and accept the facts as they are, or do you have some solid advice to change the game?

How would you go about it when:
- We’re not able to spot the fish
- The water is very shallow and clear
- Sometimes we spook the fish with the fly line when we are covering a lot of water and “blindly” fishing it by covering the water cast by cast
- The fish are sometimes very close to the shore and other times in the middle of the lake (we can wade across the lake so we can actually reach them every where)

Any help is much appreciated!


A frustrated BR from Johnny

[ACW]

https://www.sexyloops.com/stillwater/themethods.shtml
Have a read of this
for me I would be fishing a 3 fly long leader somewhere around 18 foot ,biggerst fly being #10 down to #16
leader would be nylon not fluro as that pulls the flys down faster,
Keep moving ,brown trout are mainly likely to be in one spot and will not come again if scared or hooked and lost .

[Paul Arden]

Hi Johnny,

I fish a lot of lakes like that in Tassie. There fortunately you can often spot them. The trick is the have a clear sky and wade in the direction that you can actually see without surface reflection. I would recommend “short-lining” as you would for example when fishing a boat.

If the fish are spooky and you are wading you need to be slow and stealthy. You are really tying to catch fish only a 2-3 rod lengths away. Long casts on these sorts of waters, clumsy wading, all goes to spook fish. And worse, spooked fish can spook other fish like a domino effect.

Have you sampled to the lake to see what else they eat? Have you tried different times of day/night? That’s a good sized small water!

Cheers, Paul

[johnnybg]

Yes morning, daytime, night. It's the same. Easy to get a take with the spinning rod with its thin "invisible" braided line but extremely hard with the fly rod. We're practicing catch and release. However, we have harvested 2 trouts. 1 was heavily damaged by an otter or mink we think and the other was caught in an illegally fishing net and unable to move anything but its gills. We looked into the stomach of both fish and found worms, sticklebacks and scuds. They are not picky and gladly take anything we throw at them. There are days where it has to be a small fly and days they ignore a small fly and where a big fly or lure works instead.
But getting a take on the fly rod is a struggle

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Johnny,

Your situation sounds quite familiar to fishing for large snook in the backcountry lakes during the winter down here. Clear shallow water, spooky although willing fish, easy with a spinning rod but frustrating as hell on the fly?

What you did not mention is whether you are wading or floating?

What I can tell you is that the snook are particularly keen about what is going on in the sky above them as death comes from above in many forms, especially when they are small. And if they did not spook at any hint of danger back then, they would not live to get as big as they are now. Most of the time they prefer to be hiding under structure, but they go out into the open to soak up the sun when the water temperature drops. They will spook from a flyline in flight, even a clear flyline. The line doesn't even have to be right above them, it is common to see them boil away in terror 30 to 40 feet off to the side of a high up line. Spinning line is much less visible, in the air and in the water.

So, I use clear lines and low horizontal casts. I also suspect a flyline that did not spook them in the air, but drags over them on the surface, will at least put them off their feed... so I rely on search patterns and multiple curve casts... and don't bother much with retrieving the fly where the flyline has traveled before. My retrieves are often not much longer than the leader before I pick up and recast. Its boring and methodical, like patterning a stream into squares in trout fishing, which is where I got the idea, but it works.

I also pay attention to wind chop, especially edges along smooth water. I think the smooth water warms faster but the fish feel somewhat safer below the chop, so they tend to be near the edges. Chop may also obscure the flyline traveling in the air? And, if you know of any structure like sunken tree branches - mark or remember the location, again, with snook, you can bet they will prefer to be near them, as they seem to realize they look like logs themselves from above.

Maybe some of that might translate into your situation?

[Paul Arden]

So to give you an idea what “short-lining” is, it’s a 20ft leader usually with 3 flies (you can fish 2 if you want) and cast such a distance that no more than 2 ft of flyline is on the water. Ie up close. If you are up close then you need to be stealthy, and camouflaged(!), move VERY slowly and quietly, pause a lot. You fish the area where the leader lands, ie fish the drop and a a few twitches, dibble, move, recast and repeat. You also need to fan the casts. Imagine how many casts that’s going to take to cover 4km x 1km!!

I’m surprised you’re not getting them at night. I very much doubt they will be flyline shy at night. At night I use surface muddlers and black streamers just sub surface.

It would be interesting to know if they are territorial or if they move around. You might have populations of both. Water of that depth I’m surprised you can’t get them come up and eat a dry, blind. Maybe they have their heads down eating scuds. Which is then where your flies need to be!

It would be a paradise if you can see them. One good tip is sun at your back, wind behind you and follow the waves. You often get a window to the bottom. Otherwise you just have to imagine that they are there every cast. How big are the fish?

I’m sure there is an answer!

Cheers, Paul

[johnnybg]

You fish the area where the leader lands, ie fish the drop and a a few twitches, dibble, move, recast and repeat. You also need to fan the casts. Imagine how many casts that’s going to take to cover 4km x 1km!!

Exactly and it's not that I'm lazy, but it's quite overwhelming covering a big chunk of the lake like that Furthermore, there are no visible places where you expect a trout will stay for a longer time. The bottom is boring and very monotonous and looks the same all over the lake. The only difference is that in the middle there's a depth of little more than a meter and the bottom is very soft and muddy out there.

It would be interesting to know if they are territorial or if they move around. You might have populations of both. Water of that depth I’m surprised you can’t get them come up and eat a dry, blind. Maybe they have their heads down eating scuds. Which is then where your flies need to be

I believe that's a good point _sloooow_ retrieve is often key and when I expect the fly sits at the bottom the take often follows. Maybe we need to try after the dark again. Honestly, I prefer fishing during the day to be able to see what I am doing and we have tried the night, but also concluded very fast after only a handfuld of tries that it didn't make a difference

It would be a paradise if you can see them. One good tip is sun at your back, wind behind you and follow the waves. You often get a window to the bottom. Otherwise you just have to imagine that they are there every cast. How big are the fish?

Great points that I hadn't considered! Most fish are aorund 50-60 cm. The biggest we have released this year was around 90 cm and and estimated to be around 8 kg, but we have seen bigger fish jump free in the middle. Both years we have caught beautiful wild trouts above 75 cm

Your situation sounds quite familiar to fishing for large snook in the backcountry lakes during the winter down here. Clear shallow water, spooky although willing fish, easy with a spinning rod but frustrating as hell on the fly?

What you did not mention is whether you are wading or floating?

That indeed sounds very familiar to what I am experiencing and as frustrating I'm wading by the way.

[Paul Arden]

Every cast has to cover new water! Not sure about lazy but it’s a wonderfully addictive way of fishing. It should have features, currents formed by wind. Sometimes the fish will be upwind. Sometimes downwind. I would explore every inch of the lake, and it would actually only take a few trips. When the fly lands on the surface when the fish are within the surface columns then you will often find fish attracted to the small “plop”. It’s all about moving, exploring and fishing every cast as if there is a fish there. I’m sure that when you start to dial it in then the flyfishing gear will be more productive.

Of course if you are standing in one place making long casts then it won’t work well. If you are making a bow wave when wading, stomping around rocks, trying to cast a million miles, then it’s not going to work. But if you are slow, methodical and keep covering new water, while being acutely aware of your movements, fishing water that you can see, then it should work.

I think the golden rules are never wade anywhere that you haven’t fished first! And never cast a fly line across water that you haven’t fished first! But that goes for just about everywhere.

Night fishing is another thing altogether. There are fisheries at certain times of year that only seem to fish well at night.

Cheers, Paul

[Nick]

Sounds like a place you could fish very effectively from a kayak or a canoe. These can be extremely stealthy - (I have a few times managed to creep up on pods of tailing bonefish so that I could just lower the fly in front of a fish. The first run is spectacular!). I would set up to slowly drift, using a sea anchor (drogue) if necessary, and cover the water in front or to the sides with fairly short casts as Paul describes.

You don’t say what line weight you are using. Lighter gear spooks less fish! I would start with a 4 weight, and maybe drop down to a 3 if it was calm.

[johnnybg]

I suspect I ought to retry fishing after dark and give it a serious go.

I'm using a 5-weight. I never considered short lining before starting this thread. I've used SHD and WF with a 12-15' leader with a typically cast of 15 to 25 meters. If I try to cast longer everything lands in a big pile, but I suspect the "long" cast are what's causing the problems..?